Catholics Becoming Protestant

[fhansen]

Hello fhansen - My story is similar (not identical, but close) to yours. We are now considered "reverts" - as opposed to "converts". We came home. For me, I identify well with the "prodigal son" parable.

A main complaint I continue to have with the Church - and I say this with deep love, and fidelity - is that we fail dismally to teach our members the precious treasure of the Catholic Faith. After I returned to the Church, under conviction of the Holy Spirit, I only then began to learn this great treasure. I knew I had to be Catholic! But I hardly knew anything beyond the most superficial facets of the Catholic Faith, in the beginning. The more I learned, the more convinced I was that yes, the Catholic Faith is the true Faith which Jesus died to make possible for, to give to, mankind. The full truth and life of salvation.

So - thank you for your testimony! May the Lord continue to bless you and build you up in His holy life.

Thank you-I agree with this. I wouldn't have come back the to the Church unless I had began to research her official teachings for myself, instead of through the lens of pop-mythology or the influence of Reformed theology or some local priest or Catholic group, etc, who may've had their own agendas and personal opinions. If the old Church seemed too wooden or mechanical, the new one didn't seem to have much structure at all to a young man such as I was at the time.

I also had to experience and lose some of my priggishness. I had to recognize my own failings in order to forgive the excesses and outright sins of Catholic leaders and members of the past. And realize that they failed by not heeding their own gospel-unfortunately a very common and predictable thing for humans to do according to the Church's own doctrine on sin as it turns out! Part of this understanding came after belonging to a Protestant Church for several years where the leaders, highly exalted by their congregation, ended up doing the same kinds of things-letting its members down terribly. Human nature has a tendency to do that; it doesn't change easily. Fortunately neither does God change; we can count on Him in any case.

 

[Albion]

It does not surprise me that the Evangelicals are the most successful at that, since often it seems like they're the only ones trying at all. From an outsider perspective, it appears that Mainline Protestants are morally opposed to evangelization and will be tentative even if you want them to convince you, Catholic apologetics is mostly just aimed at Protestants anyway, and Orthodoxy hasn't even managed to publicize the fact that it exists. It's a marketplace, and Evangelicalism really has a monopoly.

I have a hunch, the more I think about this, that the amorphous group "Evangelical churches" benefits from the simple fact that there are so many of them. Most have nowhere near the membership totals of the big churches downtown, but there are a lot of them, so math favors drifters and seekers winding up in one or another of these.

We tend to assume that most people who leave a denomination have specific objections to doctrine or practice or, maybe even the consequence of marriage to someone who belongs to another faith. BUT I suspect that many people move from one to another for much less predictable and logical reasons. And if they do that, consider how many churches are listed on your local newspaper's church directory OTHER THAN the main ones we always refer to. I mean all the Bible churches, non-denominational churches, pentecostal assemblies, "Christian" temples, and so on.

 

[Major1]

Well that is fanciful.

NO, it was a TRAGEDY.

 

[Silmarien]

I have a hunch, the more I think about this, that the amorphous group "Evangelical churches" benefits from the simple fact that there are so many of them. Most have nowhere near the membership totals of the big churches downtown, but there are a lot of them, so math favors drifters and seekers winding up in one or another of these.

We tend to assume that most people who leave a denomination have specific objections to doctrine or practice or, maybe even the consequence of marriage to someone who belongs to another faith. BUT I suspect that many people move from one to another for much less predictable and logical reasons. And if they do that, consider how many churches are listed on your local newspaper's church directory OTHER THAN the main ones we always refer to. I mean all the Bible churches, non-denominational churches, pentecostal assemblies, "Christian" temples, and so on.

I'm thinking more in terms of online presence, since I think that has a bigger effect on where Millennials (and post-Millennials) end up. Evangelical ministries are a dime a dozen online, but I think I've only seen one Catholic one (Bishop Barron's Word on Fire Ministries). I've had to do a lot of digging to find resources from a non-Evangelical perspective, since it seems like they effectively control the internet. I think that part has more to do with how committed they are to evangelization than how fragmented their organization is. Or maybe it's the same sort of innovation you see in their worship style playing out in different aspects of modern life.

 

[PeaceB]

NO, it was a TRAGEDY.

That’s right, because it is a “true story” as you say.

 

[Major1]

That’s right, because it is a “true story” as you say.

That is correct and as I said, no one has to believe it.

 

[PeaceB]

If you and I attended an Episcopalian church, how would we know it was not Catholic?

Well, the women priests and gay people getting married might tip you off.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Now that is something that I have never observed. Maybe that is true in the Episcopalian or Lutheran churches but surely not in the Baptist or Pentecostal churches.

Let's be honest a lot of so called "worship" services are now riddled with the world, new ageism, emotionalism, entertainment, and glorification of men.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Well, the women priests and gay people getting married might tip you off.

Let's not look inward at the mountain of pedophilia though right?

 

[PeaceB]

Let's not look inward at the mountain of pedophilia though right?

Wrong. Pedophilia should also be stamped out, where it remains within the Catholic Church, and where it is also rampant in Protestant Churches.

 

[Dale]

That is a generalization. While initially only Catholics were involved in the pro-life movement, after Francis Schaeffer the evangelicals are in it in a big way. And that's good. But it's not strictly a political thing standing out in front of an abortion facility in the freezing cold. There are political aspects to the pro-life movement, but that's not by any means only political. And the evangelicals are in it as much as the Catholics.

As to other politicking I think the bishops office (USCCB) is way too political, feeling the need to have a position on every political issue that arises. At our parish level we are essentially apolitical. We have a reading group that reads the spiritual classics, several discipleship sorts of groups and service groups, and a 24x7x365 adoration chapel that always has someone in it praying, and a preK through 8th grade school. We're not that political. Even my own personal politicking, while informed by Catholic teaching, is a pretty minor thing. Well, I guess I was, for a brief time on the state central committee for my party. But I kept it in perspective. Faith is not politics. Maybe for liberal churches it is, but for the rest of it, politics is off to the side a bit.

Chevy,

You say that Roman Catholics invented the pro-life movement.

In 1971, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod passed a resolution condemning abortion.
In 1971, the Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution condemning abortion.

Roe v Wade was handed down in January of 1973.

Conservative Protestants were always against abortion.

 

[Dale]

Interesting. I do not go to Catholic churches so I'll take your word for that experience.

If you are allergic to Protestant services and don't go to Catholic churches, then I don't know what you are.

I do not have access to your profile page.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Wrong. Pedophilia should also be stamped out, where it remains within the Catholic Church, and where it is also rampant in Protestant Churches.

I agree it should be stamped out. But that is a nonsense argument. Others do it so...well there is no evidence of systematic abuse in the protestant denominations. You will know a tree by it's fruit.

Another Massive Pedophile Ring Uncovered, With Clear Ties To Pope Benedict’s Brother

 

[Dale]

Most former Catholics are just that - former Catholics. Your choices aren't atheist, evangelical or mainline protestant. The problem is trying to make deductions when protestant is the absence of Catholicism or Orthodoxy while continuing to believe in Christ. You then force people into being either mainline or evangelical, as if you have to be one or the other. The very data you are showing indicates what I originally said - people are just losing interest in religion. A Catholic who remains a general, undefined non-practicing Christian isn't "mainline protestant" or evangelical and won't identify as such.

RadiantGrace,

If you have been told that Protestantism is the absence of Catholicism, you have been told wrong.

Protestants believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ and they believe that the Bible is the final authority on what Christianity is.

Roman Catholics believe that the hierarchy is the final authority, specifically the Pope. The Eastern Orthodox theoretically believe that tradition itself is the final authority, but the Bishops still interpret what that tradition is.

 

[chevyontheriver]

There is subtle difference in liturgy from what I have read and remember going to Catholic Mass, like for example, their Eucharistic prayers are different, and they do not bow for Mary like I have seen in the Catholic Mass during the recitation of the Nicene Creed.

We Catholics do THAT? Wow. I didn't know.

Actually there is a moment in reciting the creed where we bow in honor of the incarnation. Could it be you mean that instead?

 

[Dale]

I agree that the Roman Church is in crisis at least in the West but then again most other church bodies are as well. Having come from the RCC here are my observations:

1. Catechesis for the last several decades has been a disaster or non-existent. Most RCC's I know confuse the Immaculate conception with the Virgin Birth and deny the doctrine of the Mass as examples off the top of my head. Functionally, the ones I know are basically liturgical Evangelicals already so it does not surprise me that's where former RCC's tend to end up.
2. The Church that Rome in her official pronouncements differs greatly with the church on the ground. Gone are the days when the parish priest demanded from his parishioners a faith and manner of life consistent with Church teaching. If a priest demanded that single folks refrain from living together before marriage I suspect church giving and attendance would plummet to say nothing of the number of marriages. The deep theology of the Church and the figures from the past are ignored with a benign neglect. What happens on Sunday usually is a three point homily on how to be a good person. A person formed in that context is usually vaccinated against any orthodox belief rather then being formed by orthodox belief.
3. The RCC child sex abuse scandal from the early 2000's had a more profound effect than most people think. I am not talking about victims here. Between the loss of trust in the ecclesiastical structures and the surrender of parishes and properties that were bequeathed to the Church to pay for the damages has left a lot of ordinary folks cold to the Church. It may not be the primary reason why these folks left but I suspect it was the first step in a longer journey out of the Church.
4. Vatican II has been a disaster for the Church. Church attendance collapsed and vocations to the priesthood evaporated. Call it the "spirit of VII" but the council has effectively gutted the faith and substance of the church that had existed for at least a millennia and probably longer. What took its place would be correct to call "Cultural Do Goodism". I realize that wasn't the intent of the council but that is what has taken place.

I have no data to back this up just my personal experience on the matter. I am no friend to the church of Rome but I think it would be unwise to see what has happened here and think that it won't happen to other church bodies.

Athanasius,
Welcome, since you are fairly new to CF. You must be familiar with church history to adopt a name like Athanasius.

Athanasius: "Vatican II has been a disaster for the Church. Church attendance collapsed and vocations to the priesthood evaporated."

It is my understanding that in our sex-soaked society, it is getting too hard to find anyone willing to take a vow of celibacy. On top of that, many of those who do don't abide by it.

I don't think all of the RCC's problems can be blamed on Vatican II.

 

[redleghunter]

Answer #2

I once had a co-worker, Frank, who was a Roman Catholic, invite me to go to church with him and his wife. At the beginning of the service, someone announced that it was the eighth week of Ordinary Time, which apparently means that it isn't one of the special times of the year on the Liturgical calendar. The priest gave his sermon like a tape recorder on fast forward. Afterwards, Frank told me, "That was the most disorganized service I've ever seen."

They did have coffee.

I grew up Catholic. We had one priest Fr. Nolan who gave long sermons and then Fr. Foley who could be timed to finish a mass un under 33 minutes.

As he aged Fr. Nolan presided over the weekly high mass. He loved the incense and if one had a cold they went to high mass.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Chevy,

You say that Roman Catholics invented the pro-life movement.

In 1971, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod passed a resolution condemning abortion.
In 1971, the Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution condemning abortion.

Roe v Wade was handed down in January of 1973.

Conservative Protestants were always against abortion.

Good for the LCMS. They are a good crew of folks. Prone to argue, but one knows where they stand. If I couldn't be Catholic, I could hang out with them maybe.

As to the Southern Baptists, it's much more interesting. The 1971 resolution you mention needs to be read in it's entirety. They actually did call in that resolution for liberalizing abortion law. See: How Southern Baptists became pro-life

Southern Baptists (Southern Baptist Convention) were considered to be pro-choice in 1979 according to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, affirming the right to abortion.

It's great that Southern Baptists are pro-life now. Wasn't always so. It's great that evangelicals are so involved now. It's great that Francis Schaeffer prodded things forward. In his obituary he was noted as a pro-life figure, almost more than an evangelical (RPCES) apologist. He did change things for the better. I'm not saying all evangelicals were pro-choice, or that all Baptists were pro-choice, or even all Southern Baptists. Some were, some ignored the issue, some were pro-life. But for a long time, even before 1973, it was almost all a Catholic issue. I'm glad evangelicals are on board now, very glad, but it was more lonely 40 years ago.

 

[GingerBeer]

If you are allergic to Protestant services and don't go to Catholic churches, then I don't know what you are.

I do not have access to your profile page.

Yes, that would be because of the security settings I think.

 

[Dale]

Good for the LCMS. They are a good crew of folks. Prone to argue, but one knows where they stand. If I couldn't be Catholic, I could hang out with them maybe.

As to the Southern Baptists, it's much more interesting. The 1971 resolution you mention needs to be read in it's entirety. They actually did call in that resolution for liberalizing abortion law. See: How Southern Baptists became pro-life

Southern Baptists (Southern Baptist Convention) were considered to be pro-choice in 1979 according to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, affirming the right to abortion.

It's great that Southern Baptists are pro-life now. Wasn't always so. It's great that evangelicals are so involved now. It's great that Francis Schaeffer prodded things forward. In his obituary he was noted as a pro-life figure, almost more than an evangelical (RPCES) apologist. He did change things for the better. I'm not saying all evangelicals were pro-choice, or that all Baptists were pro-choice, or even all Southern Baptists. Some were, some ignored the issue, some were pro-life. But for a long time, even before 1973, it was almost all a Catholic issue. I'm glad evangelicals are on board now, very glad, but it was more lonely 40 years ago.

I don't believe the St. Louis Post Dispatch article was accurate. In the aftermath of Roe v Wade, the SBC passed another resolution that was much harsher on abortion, allowing fewer exceptions, than before.