Can you recommend a denomination for me?

[dldjr86]

Almost anyone you talk to will say that the Catholic church was not the first. You didn't answer where you find pope or catholic in the Bible.

 

[dldjr86]

The person who started this thread asked a question and I'm trying to answer the questions posed. The truth needs to be let known, not what man says, but what the Bible says.

 

[weblord]

Jesus is the Head of the Church, just go to a church that believes the Bible primarily, prays, seeks fellowship and I think you'll be fine. Just believe the Lord and accept Him as your own Personal Lord and Savior.
Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23, John 3:3,7

 

[dldjr86]

Most churches believe the Bible primarily, but are they the church of that Jesus established. I urge you to find the church that you can actually read about in the Bible. One founded by the Lord, not by man.

 

[panterapat]

dldjr86,

But the FACT remains that in the year 300, the Catholic Church compiled and approved the Bible. Before this time there was NO BIBLE.

Where are pope and Catholic in the Bible??? They are not there. Neither is the Trinity- Do you believe in the Trinity? Are you advancing sola scriptura? That is not in the Bible either.

When Jesus commissioned the Apostles, He told them to go and PREACH to all nations. He did not tell them to have everyone read the Bible. (It did not exist yet) The Bible is an outgrowth of the Catholic Church (The Council of Hippo, 300AD)

What everyone says about the Catholic Church or anything else does not matter. What matters is the TRUTH. Everything I have written in this post is FACTUAL TRUTH.

In Christ, Patrick

 

[paxvobiscum]

Right, Jesus established His church and intrusted it to Peter. Jesus said, "I will be with you always to the end of the age." The only Christian church from 33AD to the age of Martin Luther some 1600 years later, was the Catholic Church. This is historical FACT.

Yes and what a different Catholic Church and world it would have been if Valentinus had been pope.

 

[dldjr86]

Where does the fact come from? I believe in God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I don't ever call them the Trinity. The Old Testament existed in the New Testament times, because the Ethiopean eunuch was reading it in Acts 8. The Catholic church may have compiled the Bible THEY use, but I don't use the one they use.

I agree, truth is truth, and I get it from the Bible, not from man, not a council, but from God-inspired men.

The truth that you talk about does not come from the Bible, so, therefore, I will not believe it.

Pope's are not scriptural, calling men "Father", except your actual dad is not scriptual. A lot of the things the Catholic church does is not scriptural, it may be scriptural in your Bible, but not from the original text.

 

[weblord]

churches aren't perfect, only when Christ returns we'll we be made perfect in every sense of the word.

 

[dldjr86]

No, churches aren't perfect, but the Bible is. The Bible says that there is only one church. This is the church that Jesus built, but not the Catholic church.

 

[Rising_Suns]

I would recommend the Catholic faith, seeing as though it is the original Christianity, and the church that Jesus had intended to begin, starting with Peter.

You can get simple answers to most of the common questions about Catholicism here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t53299

May the peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

 

[Rising_Suns]

No, churches aren't perfect, but the Bible is. The Bible says that there is only one church. This is the church that Jesus built, but not the Catholic church.

Yes it is the Catholic church.

 

[Fiskare]

dldjr86,

But the FACT remains that in the year 300, the Catholic Church compiled and approved the Bible. Before this time there was NO BIBLE.

Dear Patrick,

The Canon of scripture was not compiled and approved in 300AD, but compiled in various forms certainly before that, although it is first clarified at the Council of Rome in 382AD, and finally at Carthage in 397AD. Both councils had their canon (identical canons) ratified by the Bishop of Rome. Their lists of the canon are the same as that given by Trent.

When Jesus commissioned the Apostles, He told them to go and PREACH to all nations. He did not tell them to have everyone read the Bible. (It did not exist yet) The Bible is an outgrowth of the Catholic Church (The Council of Hippo, 300AD)

What everyone says about the Catholic Church or anything else does not matter. What matters is the TRUTH. Everything I have written in this post is FACTUAL TRUTH.

In Christ, Patrick

Except that the Council of Hippo was in 393, not 300AD.

Blessings.

 

[Fiskare]

Yes it is the Catholic church.

Depends on how you define "Catholic".

Wasn't it St Jerome who when comparing the Church to Noah's Ark (a Biblical allegory from the NT) said "If it wasn't for the storm outside, you couldn't stand the stench inside"?

To the person who started this thread- my recommendation is to study the scriptures, tradition and history of the Christian Faith and get into the Ark. The Episcopalian church is very broad, and encompasses a vast array of traditions within it, but is in dire condition in some places. Likewise Rome- its a mess in many places too. However, Christ only made one Church, which may be said to be seen in many places on the planet, but clearly must trace it's origin, emphatically, to Himself. Thus, I would say you need to look closely at a church with a direct authoratative link to Jesus Himself, and His apostles. This leaves you with Rome, the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches, Anglican, and the Church of Sweden. Next, if you go through an "orthodoxy check", you'll probably be left fairly confused, because all of these claim to be more orthodox than the others on one or more points. The real solution is go where you know you are being saved- where the word of God is preached in its truth and purity and all the saving sacraments of the Church are given by direct successors of the Apostles. In other words, save your soul first, and let the apologists for various groups blast away at someone else. God will lead you.

Confused?

 

[Reader Nilus]

I would recommend the Catholic faith, seeing as though it is the original Christianity, and the church that Jesus had intended to begin, starting with Peter.

You can get simple answers to most of the common questions about Catholicism here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t53299

May the peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

The fact is the Roman Church broke communion with the east and went its own way. In the years after the great schism Roman has added dogma that was not part of the Apostolic Tradition such as Papal infalliblity and the Immaculate Conception of Mary. Both of those dogmas the Orthodox do not hold nor ever will. The Roman Catholics are not the original Christianity.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Rising_Suns]

The fact is the Roman Church broke communion with the east and went its own way. In the years after the great schism Roman has added dogma that was not part of the Apostolic Tradition such as Papal infalliblity and the Immaculate Conception of Mary. Both of those dogmas the Orthodox do not hold nor ever will. The Roman Catholics are not the original Christianity.

It was my understanding that the Orthodox Catholic faith broke off from the Roman Catholic faith. Also Peter moved to Rome, where the sucession of the Popes began starting with Peter, and the orthodox remained in the Greek church. In any case, can we atleast agree that Catholicism in some form is the original church that Christ intended to begin (thus excluding the various Protestant denominations). Among the most important doctrine is transubstantiation, which both Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics believe (but Orthodox do not call it that).

Wasn't it St Jerome who when comparing the Church to Noah's Ark (a Biblical allegory from the NT) said "If it wasn't for the storm outside, you couldn't stand the stench inside"?

I'm sorry fiskare, I fail to see your point.

 

[panterapat]

dldjr86,

"The truth that you talk about does not come from the Bible, so, therefore, I will not believe it."


So you believe that ALL truth comes from the Bible- Sola Scriptura.

Where in the Bible does it say that ALL truth comes from the Bible? Sola Scriptura is not scriptural.

"Pope's are not scriptural, calling men "Father", except your actual dad is not scriptual. A lot of the things the Catholic church does is not scriptural, it may be scriptural in your Bible, but not from the original text."

Why do you make an exception for your biological father? Is that is Scripture? The word POPE is not in the Bible but a visible head of Christ's Church IS biblical, as is evidenced by Peter and his secessors.

"The Old Testament existed in the New Testament times"

True. And there were many scattered letters written to various churches and there were many gospels written. But the Catholic Council of Hippo gathered and approved the books, letters and gospels that they believed, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, were inspired of God.

This Bible was the ONLY Bible until Martin Luther dropped several books when he broke away from the Catholic Church.

In Christ, Patrick

 

[Force]

To say that any one church out there is correct is ridiculous and hypocritical. Churches are man made, therefore not perfect. The whole reason for the veil being torn in two after Jesus death was to make it so we could go to God directly. NO church that you can "be a part of" is what can take you to heaven. Only a relationship with Jesus Christ will get you there. John 14 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. .....he didnt say oh and p.s. through this church only. Churches are there for certain reasons like I stated earlier. It is meant for guidance, spiritual growth, fellowship, and worship. As a believer and follower of Christ ie: believing in the basics you will get to heaven, not as a believer and follower of any church or silly doctrine that no one agrees on. People need to stop making the bible their own personal playground, it is for anyone and everyone. Christianity a relationship not a religion.

 

[Rising_Suns]

To say that any one church out there is correct is ridiculous and hypocritical. Churches are man made, therefore not perfect.

The church, in a sense, is simply the people of God. But at the same time, it is also incorporated into a system that God sent His very son to teach us. The church that Jesus Christ set up is not manmade. The Catholic church not only adheres to the bible as it's authority, but also the oral tradition handed down through time starting with Jesus Himself. No other church has kept this tradition. Protestants have all tossed this out the window, yet it is completely evident that Jesus wanted us to continue with the traditions. Here's some scripture to help paint the picture:




Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the protection of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.

Mark 3:14; 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach (not write) the gospel to the world. Jesus gives no commandment to the apostles to write, and gives them no indication that the oral apostolic word he commanded them to communicate would later die in the fourth century. If Jesus wanted Christianity to be limited to a book (which would be finalized four centuries later), wouldn't He have said a word about it?


Luke 10:16 - He who hears you (not "who reads your writings"), hears me. The oral word passes from Jesus to the apostles to their successors by the gracious gifts of the Holy Spirit. This succession has been preserved in the Holy Catholic Church.

Luke 24:47 - Jesus explains that repentance and forgiveness of sins must be preached (not written) in Christ's name to all nations. For Protestants to argue that the word of God is now limited to a book (subject to thousands of different interpretations) is to not only ignore Scripture, but introduce a radical theory about how God spreads His word which would have been unbelievable to the people at the time of Jesus.

Acts 2:3-4 - the Holy Spirit came to the apostles in the form of "tongues" of fire so that they would "speak" (not just write) the Word.

Acts 15:27 - Judas and Silas, successors to the apostles, were sent to bring God's infallible Word by "word of mouth."

Rom. 10:8 - the Word is near you, on your lips and in your heart, which is the word of faith which is preached (not just written).

Rom 10:17 - faith comes by what is "heard" (not just read) which is the Word that is "preached" (not read). This word comes from the oral tradition of the apostles. Those in countries where the Scriptures are not available can still come to faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 15:1,11 - faith comes from what is "preached" (not read). For Protestants to argue that oral tradition once existed but exists no longer, they must prove this from Scripture. But no where does Scripture say oral tradition died with the apostles. To the contrary, Scripture says the oral word abides forever.

Gal. 1:11-12 - the Gospel which is "preached" (not read) to me is not a man's Gospel, but the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Eph. 1:13 - hearing (not reading) the Word of truth is the gospel of our salvation. This is the living word in the Church's living tradition.

Col. 1:5 - of this you have "heard" (not read) before in the word of truth, the Gospel which has come to you.

1 Thess. 2:13 - the Word of God is what you have "heard" (not read). The orally communicated word of God lasts forever, and this word is preserved within the Church by the Holy Spirit.

2 Tim. 1:13 - oral communications are protected by the Spirit. They abide forever. Oral authority does not die with the apostles.

2 Tim 4:2,6-7 - Paul, at the end of his life, charges Timothy to preach (not write) the Word. Oral teaching does not die with Paul.

Titus 1:3 - God's word is manifested "through preaching" (not writing). This "preaching" is the tradition that comes from apostles.

1 Peter 1:25 - the Word of the Lord abides forever and that Word is the good news
that was "preached" (not read) to you. Because the Word is preached by the apostles and it lasts forever, it must be preserved by the apostles' successors, or this could not be possible. Also, because the oral word abides forever, oral apostolic tradition could not have died in the fourth century and all been committed to Scripture.

2 Peter 1:12, 15 - Peter says that he will leave a "means to recall these things in mind." But since this was his last canonical epistle, this "means to recall" must therefore be the apostolic tradition and teaching authority of his office that he left behind.

2 John 1:12; 3 John 13 - John prefers to speak and not to write. Throughout history, the Word of God was always transferred orally and Jesus did not change this. To do so would have been a radical departure from the Judaic tradition.
Deut. 31:9-12 - Moses had the law read only every seven years. Was the word of God absent during the seven year interval? Of course not. The Word of God has always been given orally by God's appointed ones, and was never limited to Scripture.

Isaiah 40:8 - the grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of our God (not necessarily written) will stand forever.

Isaiah 59:21 - Isaiah prophesies the promise of a living voice to hand on the Word of God to generations by mouth, not by a book. This is either a false prophecy, or it has been fulfilled by the Catholic Church.

Joel 1:3 - tell your children of the Word of the Lord, and they tell their children, and their children tell another generation.

Mal. 2:7 - the lips of a priest guard knowledge, and we should seek instruction from his mouth. Protestants want to argue all oral tradition was committed to Scripture? But no where does Scripture say this.

The whole reason for the veil being torn in two after Jesus death was to make it so we could go to God directly. NO church that you can "be a part of" is what can take you to heaven. Only a relationship with Jesus Christ will get you there.

Yes I agree.

 

[Rising_Suns]

Churches are there for certain reasons like I stated earlier. It is meant for guidance, spiritual growth, fellowship, and worship. As a believer and follower of Christ ie: believing in the basics you will get to heaven, not as a believer and follower of any church or silly doctrine that no one agrees on.

Jesus also intended for the church to carry on certain traditions, like the 7 sacraments, so people are given the best opportunity to follow in Christ's footsteps.

People need to stop making the bible their own personal playground, it is for anyone and everyone. Christianity a relationship not a religion.

I agree with you. Too many people fail to see the bible as a whole, and take things out of context to bend to their own beliefs. The Catholic church has done a wonderfull job at preserving the original teachings of Christ.

Just to give you another example, most of Christ's own disciples left Him because they could not understand the idea of his flesh and blood in wine and bread (John 6:60-69). Likewise, most others have not accepted this teaching for the very same reason. Read it for yourself. It's all in the bible.

 

[Force]

Rising_Suns I agree that you should go to church...but you are basing the Catholic church is the only way on what? Because the Bible says you should preach the word....Awesome...Preaching is awesome, teaching is awesome, but to ignore the Bible is ignorant. One of the biggest reasons the bible was written in so many languages was to keep churches etc. accountable, before hand how do you know that what priests or pastors are saying is true? You must read it for yourself. I believe if it was that important to go to a particular church he would have named it, OUTRIGHT...he doesn't do things that would confuse us, we confuse ourselves.