Can you fall from being saved?

[SpiritPsalmist]

I've been concentrating on other aspects of this thread, but I'm curious about where this is going now.

Okay, so do you make a distinction between continuing to sin and committing a sin?

I do. I believe that once we are saved we no longer continue on in sin. We don't continually commit the same sins knowing they are wrong. We know that there is no temptation that we cannot overcome with the Lord's help. However, occasionally (and far less frequently now that we're saved) we do sin and as a result we pray, repent and ask forgiveness. We don't continue on in that sin.

Although I've known people who believe they are without sin as christians, I've seen them sin numerous times. I only hope that they are not deceiving themselves by not repenting and seeking forgiveness.

Yes! Continuance is a lifestyle. Jesus said, "IF you love Me you will obey Me", leaveing the implication of course that if we continue to live and walk as children of darkness then we do not really love Him.

Eph 5:8 "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light"

I don't consider stumbling a lifestyle of sin, yet as quoted in a previous post we can see the steps of even overcoming stumbling. I believe forgiveness is a given upon repentance. It's repent and turn not repent and ask for forgiveness.

 

[Godzchild]

I'm sorry, I thought I was quite clear that we, in and of ourselves can do nothing. Perhaps that part of my previous post was overlooked.

Yeh I must have overlooked that - sorry LOL

Tis true WE CANNOT stop sinning...rather it's Christ in us who is sinless.

If we're obeying we're not sinning. It's when we stop obeying that we sin.

We can't obey! Rather we are to walk in Christ's obedience. "walking in the spirit".

If we've turned ourselves from the wrong way we are now going the right way and not sinning.

If we've converted we're no longer doing the wrong things.

If we've turned to God, then we are resisting the devil and he's fleeing from us.

This is true but sometimes we still sin though. Paul himself sinned. He said 'My flesh does what my spirit doesn't want to do"....."It's not I that sins rather it's my flesh". We are to consider ourselves already dead to sin and alive to God. Any sin that our flesh commits has been paid for.

No, I believe she obeyed, turned herself, converted, and turned to God. I don't beleive she did continue to sin.

She never sinned again??? I don't believe that. The only person who was able to never sin was Christ! No man can say that he is sinless...if he does he does not have christ in him. I don't believe she obeyed either, nor did she turn herself or convert...what I did see, however, is that a bunch of pharisees were going to stone her, for her sin, all the while being sinners themselves. Jesus came along and convicted them...then turned around to the woman and told her her sins were forgiven go and sin no more. She did nothing! Did she even speak a word?

I'm still waiting for scripture that says we are to ask God for forgiveness when we sin. No one has been able to provide that one yet

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I'm still waiting for scripture that says we are to ask God for forgiveness when we sin. No one has been able to provide that one yet

I'm curious, where are you going with this?

This is all pretty interesting to me. Y'all have me really digging into Scriptures here...always a good thing.

 

[Godzchild]

Well I believe that we don't have to ask for forgiveness... and there's a reason for this. It's because we are already forgiven. I believe it's a given, when the HOly Spirit leads us to repentence, we repent and we are forgiven. I dont' believe we have to actually ask God to forgive when it's already done.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Well I believe that we don't have to ask for forgiveness... and there's a reason for this. It's because we are already forgiven. I believe it's a given, when the HOly Spirit leads us to repentence, we repent and we are forgiven. I dont' believe we have to actually ask God to forgive when it's already done.

you believe this even if, after we're saved, we sin again?

I believe that once we are saved, we are forgiven of all sins but if we have the occasional relapse (i.e. lie to someone on the phone saying we're just on our way out the door when in reality we just don't feel like talking), we need to repent and a part of repenting is asking forgiveness.

This does make me think though...

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

We can't obey! Rather we are to walk in Christ's obedience. "walking in the spirit".

I think we may have to agree to disagree. Those scriptures I gave said, "turn yourselves". If we had nothing whatsoever to do with the choices we would not need the instructions on how to walk. We would not be told to walk as children of the light if Christ were going to automatically do it for us. I don't believe we are puppets that God suddenly desides to pick up and make do what we don't want to do. Do you have any scripture to back up what you are saying?

This is true but sometimes we still sin though. Paul himself sinned. He said 'My flesh does what my spirit doesn't want to do"....."It's not I that sins rather it's my flesh". We are to consider ourselves already dead to sin and alive to God. Any sin that our flesh commits has been paid for.

You initially used the word "continually". I don't beleive we can call ourselves children of light and "continue" to sin. Continue is a lifestyle...not the same as stumbling...which even that we have scripture showing us how NOT to stumble.

She never sinned again??? I don't believe that. The only person who was able to never sin was Christ! No man can say that he is sinless...if he does he does not have christ in him. I don't believe she obeyed either, nor did she turn herself or convert...what I did see, however, is that a bunch of pharisees were going to stone her, for her sin, all the while being sinners themselves. Jesus came along and convicted them...then turned around to the woman and told her her sins were forgiven go and sin no more. She did nothing! Did she even speak a word?

I said she did not "continue" in sin.

I'm still waiting for scripture that says we are to ask God for forgiveness when we sin. No one has been able to provide that one yet

I gave you several scriptures for the orig way you worded your question. You have changed the wording in this post. It was:

where does the scripture instruct us to ask God for forgiveness and stop sinning.

To me repentance and seeking forgiveness are the same thing. If we are repentant we are sorry and God knowing our hearts percieves it as needing forgiveness and automaticaly gives it. If we are truely repentant, we are forgiven and turn ourselves away from our wicked ways and toward God and we will not continue in sin.

 

[Godzchild]

you believe this even if, after we're saved, we sin again?

I believe that once we are saved, we are forgiven of all sins but if we have the occasional relapse (i.e. lie to someone on the phone saying we're just on our way out the door when in reality we just don't feel like talking), we need to repent and a part of repenting is asking forgiveness.

repentence is not asking for forgiveness. The bible doesn't say that we are to ask for forgiveness...just repent!

 

[Godzchild]

I think we may have to agree to disagree. Those scriptures I gave said, "turn yourselves". If we had nothing whatsoever to do with the choices we would not need the instructions on how to walk. We would not be told to walk as children of the light if Christ were going to automatically do it for us. I don't believe we are puppets that God suddenly desides to pick up and make do what we don't want to do. Do you have any scripture to back up what you are saying?

Romans 7 and 8 are good. If we allow God to use us like puppets (by walking in the spirit) then we are able to fulfill the commandments through Christ. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying - it's probably my fault.

You initially used the word "continually". I don't beleive we can call ourselves children of light and "continue" to sin. Continue is a lifestyle...not the same as stumbling...which even that we have scripture showing us how NOT to stumble.

Aaaah I think this is were we are crossing paths Yeh I don't believe Christians can continue to sin - no!

To me repentance and seeking forgiveness are the same thing. If we are repentant we are sorry and God knowing our hearts percieves it as needing forgiveness and automaticaly gives it. If we are truely repentant, we are forgiven and turn ourselves away from our wicked ways and toward God and we will not continue in sin.

Well it actually isn't. When we repent we are obviously sorry but we don't have to ASK for forgiveness though. We are only to repent.

According to 'lexicon's concordance'

Result of search for "repent":


3338 metamellomai met-am-el'-lom-ahee from 3326 and the middle voice of 3199; to care afterwards, i.e. regret:--repent (self). 3340 metanoeo met-an-o-eh'-o from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.

Nothing there about asking for forgiveness from God. Nowhere in the bible does God asks us to ask for forgiveness before we are forgiven...we are only meant to change our mind - he forgives - then does the rest of the changing for you.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Romans 7 and 8 are good. If we allow God to use us like puppets (by walking in the spirit) then we are able to fulfill the commandments through Christ. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying - it's probably my fault.



Aaaah I think this is were we are crossing paths Yeh I don't believe Christians can continue to sin - no!



Well it actually isn't. When we repent we are obviously sorry but we don't have to ASK for forgiveness though. We are only to repent.

According to 'lexicon's concordance'

Result of search for "repent":


3338 metamellomai met-am-el'-lom-ahee from 3326 and the middle voice of 3199; to care afterwards, i.e. regret:--repent (self). 3340 metanoeo met-an-o-eh'-o from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.

Nothing there about asking for forgiveness from God. Nowhere in the bible does God asks us to ask for forgiveness before we are forgiven...we are only meant to change our mind - he forgives - then does the rest of the changing for you.

I agree. We don't HAVE to ask forgiveness. Where there is true repentance, which involves turning toward God and away from the sin, there is forgiveness...it's a given

 

[Godzchild]

I think us begging for forgiveness all the time (which, mind you, one would have to be in a constant state of asking forgiveness all day long ) brings condemnation and I believe that people feel that unless they sit and beg God's forgiveness that they won't be forgiven. But that's not what the bible says.

Anyhow...I think it's time to share my story. The thing is, I didn't just wake up one morning and think "Well I don't want to obey God anymore so I'm going to believe this 'once saved always saved' thing so that I can do what I like" It wasn't like that. And if this is the impression that some people give...all that I can say about that it is incorrect.

The reason I came to this conclusion is based on the life I led and what 'Once saved always striving to remain saved' belief led me was to death. I almost died because of it. And slowly but surely God taught me his grace and what it actually meant. What salvation actually is. And he taught me that eternal life is really eternal - and that he didn't make a mistake in saving me. That saved my life - LITERALLY!

So Quaffer could you please direct me to the 'journal' making thing? I'm still trying to learn the ropes with all the goodies on this forum and I haven't quite worked out the journal thing. Once I've done that - I will direct the two of you to my story.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I think us begging for forgiveness all the time (which, mind you, one would have to be in a constant state of asking forgiveness all day long ) brings condemnation and I believe that people feel that unless they sit and beg God's forgiveness that they won't be forgiven. But that's not what the bible says.

I agree!

So Quaffer could you please direct me to the 'journal' making thing? I'm still trying to learn the ropes with all the goodies on this forum and I haven't quite worked out the journal thing. Once I've done that - I will direct the two of you to my story.

Click here: http://www.christianforums.com/f149-christian-journals.html

Then click on New Topic which will become your journal.

 

[Godzchild]

Thanks

 

[Godzchild]

Done - will have to start from the bottom and work up though The reason why God's grace is so important.

 

[holo]

It's hard to walk when you're on your knees all time. Of course, if you don't walk with a humble heart, you need to see more of God's goodness. But we were never meant to whip ourselves all day and be afraid of backsliding and all.
Neither do I think we are supposed to know the Lord through dictionaries and foreign languages like Greek. God speaks all languages and even understands tongues.

God is, more than anything, my Father. Much more so than He is my judge, employer, teacher, crutch, you name it.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

It's hard to walk when you're on your knees all time. Of course, if you don't walk with a humble heart, you need to see more of God's goodness. But we were never meant to whip ourselves all day and be afraid of backsliding and all.
Neither do I think we are supposed to know the Lord through dictionaries and foreign languages like Greek. God speaks all languages and even understands tongues.

God is, more than anything, my Father. Much more so than He is my judge, employer, teacher, crutch, you name it.

Well said holo. I believe we can walk in confidence that we are cherished by God and held on to tightly. Getting out of His grasp, if that's possible, does not happen easily.

 

[deu58]

Hi holo

Neither do I think we are supposed to know the Lord through dictionaries and foreign languages like Greek. God speaks all languages and even understands tongues.

God is, more than anything, my Father. Much more so than He is my judge, employer, teacher, crutch, you name it.

You know I never looked up one word in a greek or hebrew dictionary until I came to C/F, Seems like every body here from 10 years old and up is or needs to be a lingustics expert!!

I was raised to have a simple faith, That the bible was written for simple people, Granted there are many deep things in the bible but all the good stuff necessary for salvation is really pretty plain and simple,

And all the words I have had to look up because somebody said "you need a proper understanding of this word", it seems to me the translators already did a pretty thorough job of translating already anyhow! Maybe not 100% perfect, I am sure that there are some errors here and there in translating, In fact I know there are, But there are no errors that endanger a persons salvation,

Yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Lynn73]

I was raised to have a simple faith, That the bible was written for simple people, Granted there are many deep things in the bible but all the good stuff necessary for salvation is really pretty plain and simple,

I agree. I trust what I have in my hands to be God's word that He was able to preserve for me. Do I really need to know Hebrew and Greek and all that to understand it. I don't have all that knowledge, I just have the Bible. Perhaps that's a simplistic view but, that's me.

 

[TreeOfLife]

I agree that the message of Grace is so simple that only a Jew or a Gentile could miss it.

But there are those of us that God Himself has given a seemingly unquenchable desire to go deeper and deeper into the word. This desire most often leads to things like a Strong's Concordance and a Vines Expository Dictionary. There is nothing wrong with that either.

 

[Godzchild]

I was brought up to have simple faith too but sometimes it's necessary to look up words otherwise you will believe words mean what everybody else thinks they mean...like repentence meaning 'asking God forgiveness' and not 'change mind'. A simple look up in a concordance can change the whole meaning and set you free sometimes. But generally the bible is translated pretty well

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I really believe God does lead some people to dig deeper into Scriptures. I've never had even the faintest desire to do so until the last year. I really feel God is leading me deeper. I really desire to know the Scriptures in context including the understanding of cultural and social norms of the time which also changes context.