Can you be SINLESS?

[CharismaticLady]

Of course, you can't. Only the self-delusional thinks we can pull off the sinless perfection that Jesus demonstrated. There's a good reason why we are told there is zero righteousness from the Law, because if it were possible then Christ died for nothing, but rather we have a righteousness that comes from God.

You show me someone who thinks they are pulling off sinless perfection, I'll show you someone swimming in delusion and self-pride.

Why do you believe that all the scripture that say you can are false? Are you just going by your own experience?

 

[Goodhuman]

The only unforgivable sin is unbelief.

No, it is blasphemy against Holy Spirit, according to Jesus.

 

[Goodhuman]

You will not sin again after you are being born again, according to bible.

 

[Peter J Barban]

Show me the fruit!

Anyone can create a theology of anything. Let's see the sinless community that proves this is true.

What I would expect to see if a group was sinless:
sacrificial love
generous and forgiving
humility
transparency (no hidden sin)
hardworking
self-supported (they don't need outside donations)
non-coercive leadership
Bible-believing
Standard theology in all other respects
No wierdness that draws attention

 

[Jeshu]

If you Sin and Repent on a daily basis, do you commit the same sin every day?

What I am asking is, how often would you estimate, you commit the same sin, how long has this process of sinning the same sin then your repenting of the same sin been taking place without you ever ceasing that particular sin?

Will this process ever end before you die, or will you keep on committing the same exact sin until you die, no matter how many times you repent of it?

Yes i agree this could be an issue with Christians who see that sin keeps going. Some people fight the same sin for years without getting anywhere but sin and repent sin and repent.

This is what the difference is between people who fall for addictive sins and eat grace and forgiveness, and therefore through God's active love at work in them, more and more leave their sins behind in favour of loving Jesus, or the ones that pine under guilt, shame and fear and always promise but never deliver true repentance because they love themselves more than Jesus and henceforth continue sin all their lives long feeling guilty and condemned. Such people truly struggle to believe in God's grace because they haven't got any grace not even on themselves. We best pray for such believers.

Yet even leaving one sin behind, new sin come up daily to overcome as well! So i still don't believe that we are sinless when we conquer wilful sin, sin is so subtle a moment of inattention and the snake has us agreeing with lies that captivate and imprison us and bring shame, fear and guilt in the end. Perfection is not something we can grasp. Learning to become a servant to others is a lesson all of us have to learn from the great Master Himself before we can do that successfully.

To love true has perfection laced through it.

Peace.

 

[JIMINZ]

Yes i agree this could be an issue with Christians who see that sin keeps going. Some people fight the same sin for years without getting anywhere but sin and repent sin and repent.

This is what the difference is between people who fall for addictive sins and eat grace and forgiveness, and therefore through God's active love at work in them, more and more leave their sins behind in favour of loving Jesus, or the ones that pine under guilt, shame and fear and always promise but never deliver true repentance because they love themselves more than Jesus and henceforth continue sin all their lives long feeling guilty and condemned. Such people truly struggle to believe in God's grace because they haven't got any grace not even on themselves. We best pray for such believers.

Yet even leaving one sin behind, new sin come up daily to overcome as well! So i still don't believe that we are sinless when we conquer wilful sin, sin is so subtle a moment of inattention and the snake has us agreeing with lies that captivate and imprison us and bring shame, fear and guilt in the end. Perfection is not something we can grasp. Learning to become a servant to others is a lesson all of us have to learn from the great Master Himself before we can do that successfully.

To love true has perfection laced through it.

Peace.

Have you not heard, Jesus Condemned, Destroyed, Damned, Distinguished, Concluded Sin in the Flesh.

Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin,
condemned sin in the flesh:

That is why Paul says.

Rom 6:1-7
1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

 

[JIMINZ]

So i still don't believe that we are sinless

It isn't a matter of what we do, but it is a matter of what we are, in Christ.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live;
yet not I,
but Christ liveth in me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me,
and gave himself for me.

Rom. 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Daniel9v9]

This is a very confused and dangerous view, for it leaves the Gospel behind and will produce either pride or despair. It's a failure to recognise the depths and severity of sin, and that Scriptures speak of the believer in Christ as both sinner and saint at the same time. Some of his arguments are simply inaccurate and he's passing over a lot of Biblical texts.

Needless to say, I believe he's wrong on many accounts, and while I'm happy to go into details, perhaps the simplest and easiest way to demonstrate his error is by the Lord's Prayer:
Consider the petition "Forgive us our sins". Who taught us to pray this? Jesus Christ. Who is it for? Those who believe in Him. When should we pray this? Often - This is plain from the context, history and even indicated in the prayer itself when we pray "Give us today our daily bread", emphasis on "daily".

To suggest that a Christian can and should outgrow this prayer is not found in the Bible, but Scriptures give every indication that, while we are justified once and for all by the person and works of our Lord Jesus Christ, we are also to repent daily and pray for forgiveness. Both truths must be upheld and they shouldn't be confounded.

 

[not under law]

If you can achieve sinless perfection you no longer need a saviour from sin do you, so I imagine Christ would then be of no value to you

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Can you be SINLESS?
Here is a video that claims that you can:

I find people who think they don't sin are blinded by their pride .. so no.

 

[JIMINZ]

and that Scriptures speak of the believer in Christ as both sinner and saint at the same time.

Scripture ?

Consider the petition "Forgive us our sins".

Consider the petition, in the Original Greek it says "DEBTS"

Mat. 6:12
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

DEBT:
G3783
ὀφείλημα
opheilēma
of-i'-lay-mah
Something owed, that is, (figuratively) a due.; morally a fault: - debt.

How is something that is a Sin owed?

According to you it is Sins, "Forgive us our sins"

Now sin:

1 Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

SIN:
G266
ἁμαρτία
hamartia
ham-ar-tee'-ah
From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).

G264
ἁμαρτάνω
hamartanō
ham-ar-tan'-o
Properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Here is a video that claims that you can:

I watched the video, he did a good job of suppressing cues that indicated what his feelings were in the video.Repressed emotions tend to indicate one sin or another under the surface.

I find my understanding of what sin is, and what his understanding of what sin is, is so vastly different.

He'd probably freak out if he became aware of that nuance to understanding sin.

 

[JIMINZ]

If you can achieve sinless perfection you no longer need a saviour from sin do you, so I imagine Christ would then be of no value to you

If it's after the fact like you say then your right, a Savior from New or Daily sin is not needed, His Sacrifice was once (for all)

 

[JIMINZ]

I watched the video, he did a good job of suppressing cues that indicated what his feelings were in the video.Repressed emotions tend to indicate one sin or another under the surface.

I find my understanding of what sin is, and what his understanding of what sin is, is so vastly different.

He'd probably freak out if he became aware of that nuance to understanding sin.

You might as well.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You might as well.

I actually did freak out initially.

It seems the sin in one body connects to the sin in another body, it's like the whole creation is infested with sin, some sort of infection that causes everything to malfunction arbitrarily. Teaching behavior modification is like painting over a rusty car and saying it's brand new. We were given a new heart, a new mind, a revived spirit, but not a new body - that comes later.

 

[not under law]

If it's after the fact like you say then your right, a Savior from New or Daily sin is not needed, His Sacrifice was once (for all)

But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time Heb10:12

However, this is a subject not worthy of debate. If I asked you if it was sin not to obey Jesus commands, I wonder how you would respond. If I then gave you a list of Jesus commands and asked you if you perfectly obeyed them, would I get a forthright response? I rather doubt it.

 

[Richard T]

The best resource on this question is "A plain account of Christian Perfection" by john Wesley. He suggests you can. Always good to aim high. Finney used to say If God syas to be holy as i am holy then there must be a provision for it.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I agree it's always good to aim the highest possible, since we all fall short as the scriptures say.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Show me the fruit!

Anyone can create a theology of anything. Let's see the sinless community that proves this is true.

What I would expect to see if a group was sinless:
sacrificial love
generous and forgiving
humility
transparency (no hidden sin)
hardworking
self-supported (they don't need outside donations)
non-coercive leadership
Bible-believing
Standard theology in all other respects
No wierdness that draws attention

I hope you've described yourself. Do you remember being baptized in the Holy Spirit?

 

[CharismaticLady]

There's a good reason why we are told there is zero righteousness from the Law, because if it were possible then Christ died for nothing, but rather we have a righteousness that comes from God.

And for that very reason Christ came, to take away our sin, the very reason the law existed (to show us our sin). What did Christ give us in place of the written law that makes us fulfill the righteous requirements of the law, so we are no longer under the law?