Can you be good without God?

[Locutus]

I simply point to Jesus being God and proving it, while you dance with ignorance.

I simply point to some other gods being ... gods, while you dance with ignorance (who's Ignorance, btw?). Bunches of words. Said by the many, about their many gods. All real apparently, since you're insisting that (your own) bunch of words made something true.

 

[bhsmte]

Breaking at least one of the Ten Commandments and likely a majority of these laws.

I am a lawless person, because you claim I have broken some of you're religions commandments?

LOL

 

[Locutus]

Breaking at least one of the Ten Commandments and likely a majority of these laws.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs, though? You break other commandments of other gods constantly. Are you concerned about that? If your answer is 'no', then why on earth would expect him to be concerned?

 

[Locutus]

You continue to blame God for your lawlessness.

Do you blame Zeus for your own lawlessness (breaking of his commandments)?

 

[Locutus]

I simply point to Jesus being God and proving it, while you dance with ignorance.

Sorry, I must have missed that proof part. And why didn't it make the news?

 

[MennoSota]

What does that have to do with the price of eggs, though? You break other commandments of other gods constantly. Are you concerned about that? If your answer is 'no', then why on earth would expect him to be concerned?

Show me another god that can be proved to have come to earth, displayed his deity and arose from the dead to physically eat with humans again.

It's interesting to watch you squirm in your own sins.

 

[MennoSota]

Sorry, I must have missed that proof part. And why didn't it make the news?

It did make the news. We have four biographies declaring the good news as well as 23 other documents directly sharing this news.

How is it that you've missed this news? Are you illiterate?

 

[Locutus]

Billions will spend eternity in hell .

Such a dark and sociopathic utterance.

No matter how many times I see it or hear it, it always comes as a shock.

 

[Locutus]

Read the gospels. The details are there.

But that is a book containing claims of supernatural events. You mentioned proof (of the claims).

 

[Locutus]

It did make the news. We have four biographies declaring the good news as well as 23 other documents directly sharing this news.

How is it that you've missed this news? Are you illiterate?

Yes, a book of claims. The proof of the claims hasn't made the news, so I'm wondering what it is.

 

[Locutus]

Show me another god that can be proved to have come to earth, displayed his deity and arose from the dead to physically eat with humans again.

It's interesting to watch you squirm in your own sins.

Show me the proof that your god did those things. If you can't, then you have exactly the same 'evidence' as for all the other god claims. Which means you accept the claim itself. Which means you must believe in all the gods for whom claims have been made. Do you?

Squirming? I'm sitting perfectly still

 

[MennoSota]

Show me the proof that your god did those things. If you can't, then you have exactly the same 'evidence' as for all the other god claims. Which means you accept the claim itself. Which means you must believe in all the gods for whom claims have been made. Do you?

Squirming? I'm sitting perfectly still

The proof has been shown. You choose to live in the Matrix you've created for yourself. That's your problem, not mine.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Indeed, God has declared that judgment is coming. Everyone dies and everyone stands before God's judgment. Condemnation is as sure as the earth rotating on its access.

And it is justly deserved, correct? Those not saved deserve their punishment like any convict deserves his sentence, right?

If God justly acted on our first sin, no human would live to their first birthday.

Yeah, I got that part... Automatically convicted and condemned by virtue of being human. Oh, but he's a nice guy because, there's a way out.

Tell me, in what other situation would a convicted criminal be allowed to skip his sentence? If we are truly guilty, would it not be immoral for anyone to avoid their due sentence? We'd certainly never allow that in any human legal system. How then can you say it is moral for anyone to stand by and allow someone like Christ to be sacrificed on our behalf?

Would you be comfortable with an innocent person taking on the sentence for a crime you know you are guilty of, and they are not?

How is that just?

We see God act in stopping wickedness all the time.

Maybe you do. I certainly don't see God doing much of anything. At all.

But let's say he does. Why stop some wickedness but not all?

The problem is that you tend not to acknowledge that God is acting to bring judgment via human law.

I don't tend to acknowledge anything you or anyone else claim God is doing because I don't tend to see or hear or taste or touch or smell God doing or acting in any way.

Do you understand that?

It is a fundamental difference in our worldviews.

 

[MennoSota]

And it is justly deserved, correct? Those not saved deserve their punishment like any convict deserves his sentence, right?

Yeah, I got that part... Automatically convicted and condemned by virtue of being human. Oh, but he's a nice guy because, there's a way out.

Tell me, in what other situation would a convicted criminal be allowed to skip his sentence? If we are truly guilty, would it not be immoral for anyone to avoid their due sentence? We'd certainly never allow that in any human legal system. How then can you say it is moral for anyone to stand by and allow someone like Christ to be sacrificed on our behalf?

Would you be comfortable with an innocent person taking on the sentence for a crime you know you are guilty of, and they are not?

How is that just?

Maybe you do. I certainly don't see God doing much of anything. At all.

But let's say he does. Why stop some wickedness but not all?


I don't tend to acknowledge anything you or anyone else claim God is doing because I don't tend to see or hear or taste or touch or smell God doing or acting in any way.

Do you understand that?

It is a fundamental difference in our worldviews.

I would be amazed by the pardon and the grace extended to one who entirely deserves his damnation.
Only a Sovereign King could make such a choice.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Regardless of your feelings, it is true.

Humans doing whatever seems right in their own eyes doesn't necessarily equal lawlessness. Clearly, what we see as right, at least for the most part is to establish law and order because it is something that is present in literally every single human civilization that has ever lived. If there was ever a society that didn't establish laws for their people, they didn't last very long or leave much behind.

Now, what is your basis for your assertion that without God, we would be completely lawless?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I would be amazed by the pardon and the grace extended to one who entirely deserves his damnation.
Only a Sovereign King could make such a choice.

You are avoiding quite a few questions and points that I'm making.

Please tell me I didn't waste my time with you.

If I'm guilty of something, anything more or less than my deserved sentence would be unjust. Do you disagree?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

God is not obligated to redeem even one law breaker and forgive their crime.

And why should He? If we are guilty then nothing less will do.

I would even dare say extending grace should be considered immoral. Definitely accepting grace when you know you are guilty. That's clearly wrong but we are fallible and that is to be expected but to extend grace when we rightly deserve punishment, and to then take it out on an innocent third party? I just cannot reconcile that with what I understand of morality and justice. That is unjust and immoral, by my own standards.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

.

 

[Davian]

No, God's laws are the basis for human law. Without God's direction, humans would, by nature, be lawless and do whatever seemed right in their own eyes.

It seems right in my eyes to conduct oneself towards others in a manner that one would expect oneself to be treated. Why exactly are gods needed?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

The proof has been shown. You choose to live in the Matrix you've created for yourself. That's your problem, not mine.

I find that not actually answering a question often times means that there's no satisfactory answer to be had...