Can water be used instead of wine for communion?

[Athanasias]

If so can hard water be used?

 

[~Anastasia~]

If so can hard water be used?

No, because water is added TO the wine.

 

[Athanasias]

No, because water is added TO the wine.

What about gatorade? Grape of course?

 

[~Anastasia~]

What about gatorade? Grape of course?

Perhaps if you can find hard grape Gatorade then. I'm still in doubt though.

And I don't believe my priest would be at all appreciative, being as he has to drink all that remains.

 

[rockytopva]

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 1 Cor 11:29-30

I do not like to see the communion served sloppily.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Perhaps if you can find hard grape Gatorade then. I'm still in doubt though.

And I don't believe my priest would be at all appreciative, being as he has to drink all that remains.

At least he didn't suggest Red Bull

 

[Athanasias]

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 1 Cor 11:29-30

I do not like to see the communion served sloppily.

Oh I agree I do not like to eateth or drinketh the wrong thing either! LOL

 

[~Anastasia~]

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 1 Cor 11:29-30

I do not like to see the communion served sloppily.

I was only playing along, though one could argue it is not a matter for jesting.

I think Athanasias and I would agree on not substituting anything in the Eucharist (though I guess we'd disagree on the Body).

 

[topcare]

If so can hard water be used?

No because Christ held up the wine and sid that was His blood, not water

 

[Athanasias]

I was only playing along, though one could argue it is not a matter for jesting.

I think Athanasias and I would agree on not substituting anything in the Eucharist (though I guess we'd disagree on the Body).

How could we possibly disagree on the body?

 

[~Anastasia~]

How could we possibly disagree on the body?

Well ....

Yours are unleavened wafers, correct?

Leavened bread. With many more details, but then I probably don't know all the details on the wafers either. Though MC once shared a video with me about how nuns make them, and I watched it.

 

[Athanasias]

Well ....

Yours are unleavened wafers, correct?

Leavened bread. With many more details, but then I probably don't know all the details on the wafers either. Though MC once shared a video with me about how nuns make them, and I watched it.

Oh we believe in the same thing just use a different expression. Remember we also have Eastern Catholics united to the Pope like Byzantine Catholics who use leavened bread in their Masses. We just use unleavened in Western/Roman rite. Both have good symbolic reference and are valid in our Catholic view. I would add that unleavened to me is much more Jewish in nature as far as the passover is concerned and its fullfillments.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Oh we believe in the same thing just use a different expression. Remember we also have Eastern Catholics united to the Pope like Byzantine Catholics who use leavened bread in their Masses. We just use unleavened in Western/Roman rite. Both have good symbolic reference and are valid in our Catholic view. I would add that unleavened to me is much more Jewish in nature as far as the passover is concerned and its fullfillments.

Yes, intuitively unleavened made more sense to me. In perhaps a more simplistic sense, that leaven represents sin, and the bread becomes His body.

It's been a while since I read the Orthodox reply. I remember that I was satisfied with it, but now I can't bring too mind what the reason was (sometimes I read more than I can remember apparently, lol).

I am always interested in the answers I hear about Eastern Rite Catholics. Maybe that answers something I think I decided not to post in one of these unity threads - I think EO and CC.

The problem would seem to be that neither is likely to compromise, and the Catholic dogmas, if retained, would excommunicate most EO. I'm not sure just what the Eastern Rite Catholic looks like or believes, but it makes me wonder. Do they depart from any of the dogmas of the Catholic Church? Or is it more a matter of practices only?

 

[Athanasias]

Yes, intuitively unleavened made more sense to me. In perhaps a more simplistic sense, that leaven represents sin, and the bread becomes His body.

It's been a while since I read the Orthodox reply. I remember that I was satisfied with it, but now I can't bring too mind what the reason was (sometimes I read more than I can remember apparently, lol).

I am always interested in the answers I hear about Eastern Rite Catholics. Maybe that answers something I think I decided not to post in one of these unity threads - I think EO and CC.

The problem would seem to be that neither is likely to compromise, and the Catholic dogmas, if retained, would excommunicate most EO. I'm not sure just what the Eastern Rite Catholic looks like or believes, but it makes me wonder. Do they depart from any of the dogmas of the Catholic Church? Or is it more a matter of practices only?

They are fully in line with us dogmatically but explain them differently using Eastern theology and fathers. They have a variety of Liturgical traditions and their own expressions of theology. The key is being able to interpret the East for the West and vice versa. here is one professor who does a great job of it. He is Eastern Catholic.

Here is a sample of how the Eastern Catholics can hold to the same concepts and dogmas Western Catholics can and not reject them like the EO's do.

They are in full unity with Rome.

From East to West

 

[~Anastasia~]

They are fully in line with us dogmatically but explain them differently using Eastern theology and fathers. They have a variety of Liturgical traditions and their own expressions of theology. The key is being able to interpret the East for the West and vice versa. here is one professor who does a great job of it. He is Eastern Catholic.

Here is a sample of how the Eastern Catholics can hold to the same concepts and dogmas Western Catholics can and not reject them like the EO's do.

They are in full unity with Rome.

From East to West

Thank you for the link.

I've read over parts - about half so far, will finish later. That's interesting. Though it almost seems as though they are redefining some things.

Purgatory, for example, mentioned as possibly joyful and equated with final theosis? Would be very different from what I've understood as teachings on purgatory from western Catholics.

Their Immaculate Conception teaching sounds on the surface like that of the Catholic Church, though the thought of the Virgin Mary possibly being filled with the Holy Spirit from early in life is an interesting idea. Such a thing is obviously possible, since John the Baptist was. I have not heard mention of this elsewhere though. But I'm going to have to read and re-read those various definitions and the article to fully understand, because when you begin to redefine words, it's difficult to follow and keep perfectly in mind what is being said without misunderstanding.

Overall, interesting, thank you.

It is quite interesting that they can be considered to hold the same beliefs and be in communion with Rome while not defining the words in the same way in some cases. (Purgatory)

 

[Erose]

Thank you for the link.

I've read over parts - about half so far, will finish later. That's interesting. Though it almost seems as though they are redefining some things.

Purgatory, for example, mentioned as possibly joyful and equated with final theosis? Would be very different from what I've understood as teachings on purgatory from western Catholics.

Their Immaculate Conception teaching sounds on the surface like that of the Catholic Church, though the thought of the Virgin Mary possibly being filled with the Holy Spirit from early in life is an interesting idea. Such a thing is obviously possible, since John the Baptist was. I have not heard mention of this elsewhere though. But I'm going to have to read and re-read those various definitions and the article to fully understand, because when you begin to redefine words, it's difficult to follow and keep perfectly in mind what is being said without misunderstanding.

Overall, interesting, thank you.

It is quite interesting that they can be considered to hold the same beliefs and be in communion with Rome while not defining the words in the same way in some cases. (Purgatory)

Well there is a lot of misconceptions on the West side about definitions and what is defined by the Church. For example the doctrine of purgatory is simply defined as the state of purification after death and before entering into God's presence; and our prayers and penances done in the name if the dead, has an edifying effect. How the purging occurs has not been defined, albeit most theologians agree that fire is involved, due to the allusion of fire found in Scripture.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

water can be used in place of wine if you believe him for it

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Well there is a lot of misconceptions on the West side about definitions and what is defined by the Church. For example the doctrine of purgatory is simply defined as the state of purification after death and before entering into God's presence; and our prayers and penances done in the name if the dead, has an edifying effect. How the purging occurs has not been defined, albeit most theologians agree that fire is involved, due to the allusion of fire found in Scripture.

I would agree that this and the bread are not insurmountable. I even posted a similar post once only to have a Catholic Tell me I was dead wrong as it was "just like hell fire".
I think this comes from quoting theologians giving a explanatory teaching rather than what is acceptable to believe to be a catholic in good Communion.
when someone says it is like or like unto something, I think it's often taken too literal.
What you posted Erose, sounds very familiar to me.
Oh no, are we agreeing? That ought to make someone mad.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I would agree that this and the bread are not insurmountable. I even posted a similar post once only to have a Catholic Tell me I was dead wrong as it was "just like hell fire".

I think this comes from quoting theologians giving a explanatory teaching rather than what is acceptable to believe to be a catholic in good Communion.
when someone says it is like or like unto something, I think it's often taken too literal.

What you posted Erose, sounds very familiar to me.

Oh no, are we agreeing? That ought to make someone mad.

Oh dear. Do I have to invoke eternal torment and hot pokers now?

 

[RDKirk]

If so can hard water be used?

Do I take from the course of this discussion that this question has particular significance to Catholics?