Can water be used instead of wine for communion?

[ViaCrucis]

Without extenuating circumstances I don't think there's a particularly good reason to not use bread and wine. If they are available and unless someone has a gluten allergy or has a bad reaction to alcohol, there's really no reason not to use them.

If one cannot, then I think substitutes out of necessity are legitimate.

But if bread and wine are available, there's no reason to use use Doritos and Pepsi. If water is available, there's no reason to perform a baptism with lime Jell-O. If the people at church all are of hearing, there's no reason to substitute preaching the Word with an interpretive dance while wearing bee costumes.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[prodromos]

On a more serious note, bread and wine are used because they are a fruit of our labour, offering back to God what He created, but with the additional sacrifice of our efforts in planting, pruning, harvesting, milling the wheat and crushing the grapes, kneading the dough and baking the bread. I don't believe water would be acceptable because we don't give it back to God changed by our effort.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I am not getting this importance of wine specifically having to be used. So North Korean christians rotting in prison are just out of luck for doing communion since they cannot have wine? This restriction of wine and only wine for the ceremony is superficial considering the importance of it.

Let God deal with Christians in prison and rest assured that he is just and will do justly. But you are not in prison in North Korea (you are chatting on GT which is good evidence that you're not in North Korea) and communion for you wouldn't come under the category of "extenuating circumstances". So for you bread and wine are available and ought to be used in communion.

 

[BobRyan]

If so can hard water be used?

Wine .. then coffee then dessert at the sports bar.

or grape juice in the "unleavened' -- unfermented... 'no yeast not even wine yeast" context of Passover.

pick one.

Christ did.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

Wine .. then coffee then dessert at the sports bar.

or grape juice in the "unleavened' -- unfermented... 'no yeast not even wine yeast" context of Passover.

pick one.

Christ did.

in Christ,

Bob

Jesus chose to drink wine with his passover meal as did the Israelites in ancient times. For them wine was not "leavened" because for them leaven was (as it is for us) yeasted dough kept over from one batch to the next to cause the bread to rise. Christians have Christ as their passover and celebrate the feast with bread and wine.

 

[BobRyan]

Passover is part of the feast of unleavened bread according to the Gospel account - and so no yeast -- no not even wine yeast.

in 1Cor 5 Christians are also to celebrate without leaven - without yeast - including wine yeast "for Christ your passover has been slain".

So we are back to the fact that the Bible does not support the sports bar model for worship.

 

[Targaryen]

Water only?

Hmmm...I'd rather have wine or grape juice from a purely symbolic and eucharistic stance.

Also, don't the Latter-Day Saints only use water in their communion services?

 

[Targaryen]

That's right.


Not just everything in our religion can be set aside when it's inconvenient to do it the right way. Besides, you're barking up the wrong theological tree.

Instead of speculating on how an ersatz version of Holy Communion might pass muster with God, think in terms of God not demanding Communion for salvation! And this is not something that only prisoners in an atheist prison camp face; it was faced by our forefathers on the frontier...and they didn't turn to holding make-believe Communions.

Good point actually, didn't think of that at first.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I am not getting this importance of wine specifically having to be used. So North Korean christians rotting in prison are just out of luck for doing communion since they cannot have wine? This restriction of wine and only wine for the ceremony is superficial considering the importance of it.

There is no sin in not being able to partake of the Eucharist.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If so can hard water be used?

You get more bang for the buck using "heavy water"

Heavy water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A second effort began under the administrative purview of the Wehrmacht's Heereswaffenamt on 1 September 1939, the day of the Invasion of Poland. The program eventually expanded into three main efforts: the Uranmaschine (nuclear reactor), uranium and heavy water production, and uranium isotope separation.

.............

The Heroes of Telemark Trailer (1965) - YouTube

 

[prodromos]

Passover is part of the feast of unleavened bread according to the Gospel account - and so no yeast -- no not even wine yeast.

in 1Cor 5 Christians are also to celebrate without leaven - without yeast - including wine yeast "for Christ your passover has been slain".

So we are back to the fact that the Bible does not support the sports bar model for worship.

The bible certainly doesn't support wine without yeast. Leaven was added to the bread dough, or not, according to the requirements of the festal or fasting season. There is no directive anywhere in scripture to not add leaven to the wine because nothing ever was added to the wine. It was already there from the time the grapes were crushed.

 

[MoreCoffee]

There is no sin in not being able to partake of the Eucharist.

There's only a sin involved if one refuses to repent and decides to avoid receiving the Holy Eucharist because one no longer desires communion with Christ's body and reception of Christ as the bread of life.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

There's only a sin involved if one refuses to repent and decides to avoid receiving the Holy Eucharist because one no longer desires communion with Christ's body and reception of Christ as the bread of life.

Yea verily.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

"27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.””--Matthew 26:27-29

The fruit of the vine represents His blood, water does not. Therefore we drink the fruit of the vine.