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Featured Can Satan read our minds and thoughts?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes and no. After the new birth our human spirits are always in Christ.
    1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
    The new birth is the new creation of our human spirits being joined as one with Christ. It is in this sense that John means:
    1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    Whereas when John says this:
    1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    he means with our soul and body. So in our spirits we are sinless because we are joined to Christ, but our bodies are unchanged, and our minds (part of our souls) have to be retaught, hence Paul's admonition:
    Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
    Discipleship is learning to walk in the will of God by the change in our thinking. We can still sin, and do sin, in our choices and actions, but we are sealed by the Holy Ghost in our spirits which remain perfect and sinless.
     
  2. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    That is how I see it as well, God's spirit being in our spirits. But we are a triune being, body, soul and spirit. Then there is also our hearts and minds that affect our behavior. I believe that we are not sanctified fully when we are born-again, because we are sanctified by the Word of Truth, John 17:7 and for that we have to keep reading and understanding Scripture, and not only reading it, but doing it. James 1:22. But I do believe that with time, we are sanctified body, soul and spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:23. Because the body is not the same as the flesh, since the flesh is our sinful nature. And we put the deeds of the flesh to death by the Spirit, crucifying the flesh on the Cross with Jesus, then receiving new life in Him. And though we received that new nature when we were born-again, it may take time to start walking as the new creation. Because we are His children, and children need to mature before they are adults.
     
  3. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

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    I am not certain, but I know he can inject thoughts into our minds. I would say from experience that "yes", the devil can read our thoughts. As for bible verses there is not a lot in the bible about Satan.

    We are asked to "take captive every thought, to the obedience of Christ", the taking captive suggests a struggle, or battle. Often Satan battles in our mind.

    As an example with me if I drive past an attractive girl, Satan persists to inject the picture into my mind, trying to get me to think about their beauty, being married I have to actively push the thought out. There is a degree of struggle that goes on, often with other injected thoughts. The devil will often fill our minds with things meant to harm us, or make us sin,we need to fight that with Godly thoughts. In Christ we have authority to keep him somewhat at bay. By that I mean we should generally experience mind peace.
     
  4. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    post #42...

    He can occasionally get temporary access to our thoughts in a particular moment, and then he has to leave and does not have access until he can get access again...

    He is not all-knowing, nor omnipresent like God is either...

    And Just because it may seem that he has access to your thoughts in a particular moment, does not mean he always does, or is always with you or present with you, cause he is not and cannot be, like God can be and is always... He therefore does not know everything about you, or all that has been going on with you in a particular or particular moments, all of your thoughts, ect, he doesn't know all of it/that... He's far from all knowing, and it is impossible for him to be omnipresent... In that way he is limited... He's and angel, a created being and not God, and can only do what angels or and angel can do (or be)...

    And if he seems to be there in a particular moment, remember that God is too, and God does not leave you ever... Talk with God about him after he leaves...

    God Bless!
     
  5. Mal'ak

    Mal'ak New Member

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    Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
    Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

    Does satan know you do not understand, then whispers in your ear something to discredit the Word of God as a way to "catcheth away that which was sown in his heart"?

    Does satan read your mind, hears you saying you do not get it and then whispers in your ear to discredit the word of God?

    Does satan have the ability to take your thoughts, make you forget ever hearing something?

    What you believe from this is your choice, there is no clear answer that I know of. But I do know demons/satan can possess humans and control them, so the only answer you need is to stay on the path of God and keep the Holy Spirit in your heart so no evil can enter.
     
  6. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is splitting of hairs, so bear with me. We are sanctified fully in Christ through our spirit. However, I understand your point. You are addressing discipleship. We are to make choices in our behavior and responses that are sanctified choices and responses. But in terms of our relationship with God, we are fully sanctified. Consider what Paul says about marriage:

    1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

    I find this quite mysterious. When an unbelieving spouse remains with a believing spouse, the unbelieving spouse and the children are all sanctified, even though they do not have the new birth. If this is the case for unbelieving spouses, then for those of us who have the new birth, it is apparent that we are wholly sanctified even though our bodies are not yet redeemed and our minds still need renewing.

    When we are born again, we do not have a sinful nature. We can still sin, but we are not driven by sin. The old man is the memories of our lives before Christ and the influence of an evil world all around us. When Paul speaks of the flesh, he is referring to the choices of the old nature which is now dead since it has been crucified with Christ. We put on the new man by choice. In other words, our minds and souls stand between our renewed spirits and our mortal bodies that receives input from the fallen world. We have a choice to walk in the new nature or the memories of the old nature, even though the old nature is gone.

    Correct. Discipleship is a life long journey.
     
  7. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    2 Corinthians 2:11. It's okay (and I would argue necessary) to seek understanding of how the enemy works, from God's perspective, as long as the purpose is to overcome him in Christ. We have to keep our eyes on Christ and not on the devil, but we can't stay unaware of how the devil works in our lives or we will end up confused.
     
  8. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    i agree .. but the op in particular has been posting a lot on the topic
     
  9. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    "We are sanctified fully in Christ through our spirit." Could you give me the verses that say this? Because I have never seen evidence of this in Scripture. We are fully justified in Christ when we first believe, but I don't see how we are fully sanctified.

    As for the verses about unbelieving spouses, my response is: :scratch:
    Those verses have always confused me.

    I agree with you that our old man is crucified in Christ, because the verses is past tense, but then what about Romans 8:13? I do not believe that the flesh (sinful nature) is gone, because it does still affect us, or Paul would not have warned the Church not to walk according to the flesh in many, many verses. Also see James 1:14. It is our own sin that tempts us (even though the enemy and the world can cause us to lust too), and our own sins must come from the sinful nature. I couldn't willingly sin if I wanted to. I've even tried and it didn't work, but I still sin in those areas where God hasn't renewed my mind yet, and I believe that's because I haven't been sanctified by His Word yet (my mind not being obedient to truth). It's not because I'm not choosing righteousness, it's more because I simply don't have the habits yet, not always knowing what I'm doing or how to do it right. Which I believe is the battle between the Spirit and the flesh.
     
  10. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    I think that's okay. I don't think that the OP is seeking anything else but truth, probably to overcome fear and/or confusion.

    The OP can correct me on this if I'm wrong. (@Neostarwcc didn't want to talk about you without inviting you to defend yourself. :))
     
  11. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The verses I gave were the supporting argument. Not everything requires a straightforward statement from Scripture. Some things are understood by a body of verses.

    Did God create Adam and Eve with sin? Of course not. They were perfect. Nonetheless, without a sin nature they committed sin. One does not need a sin nature to sin. Because of popular teaching, you assume that the flesh in the NT means sin nature. It does not. It means acting upon what the world promotes (whose author is Satan) and the memories of the old man which was the sin nature, but is now crucified through the cross of Christ.

    Consider Jesus. Did he have a sin nature? Of course not, he was both perfect and God in the flesh. Could he have sinned? Yes, he could, otherwise the temptation in the wilderness would be meaningless. And what was he tempted with? Elements of the flesh. Lust of the flesh (hunger), and the lust of the eyes (rule the world under Satan), and the pride of life (God would not let him get hurt jumping off the pinnacle) , [1 Jn 2:16]. The flesh in the Bible does not equal sin nature, merely things of this physical life.

    This doctrine of our still having a sin nature after receiving the new birth is illogical, and is popular because many want to excuse their choices of behavior. Is God incompetent? Is the work of Christ only half way effective? Do you really think God left us with multiple personality disorder? I am righteous in Christ, but, no I am not because I remain a sinner?

    Discipleship and sanctification is a life long process because we are constantly bombarded by a world system that encourages us to sin. Likewise, demons (through people and through our minds) try to convince us to act on sin. This is the war of the flesh.

    It was asked if demons hear our thoughts. The answer is yes. Demons are spirits and plant thoughts in our minds through our spirits. This is why we have to cast out every thought that is disobedient to Christ. Every memory that surfaces from the past that is sinful we must also cast out.

    Lastly, do you think Satan ignores the Church? Don't you think he wants to create doctrines that, when believed by Christians, will make them impotent and weak in resisting him? As Paul said,

    1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    Is Satan stupid? Do you think anyone will believe his doctrines if they did not seem to be true? All Satan needs is to introduce doubt in what God said. Hath God surely said....
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  12. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member Supporter

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    This is a pretty much accurate description to me.

    When my mother was young, she ever played a kind of demon board game called dish board. The board is full of random characters. My mother was then asked to ask a question by heart without telling anyone. Then the game began, she and her teacher both put a finger over a dish with an arrow. The dish then moved more like by some kind of external force and stopped over a certain character pointed by the arrow on the dish. That character was marked down. Then the dish moved over to another character then another till it went to a full stop. The characters marked down formed a sentence which actually answered the question my mother asked by heart.

    I think that this is what the devil can do, somehow especially through a psyche of some kind.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  13. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    When it comes to something as important as what the flesh is, how it affects us and how we overcome it, which is fundamental to our understanding of the life we live while on Earth, then it certainly does require more than an argument that is losely founded on a few verses very specific to a particular situation that does in no way speak about our "natures".

    Yes, it does equal our sin nature. Paul refers to it in that way over and over. That doesn't make us schizophrenic, as if we were two people inside, it simply means that we still have the tendency to sin in our mortal bodies. That isn't some popular teaching that I have heard, that is what I understand from Scripture, and it is the only way it makes sense with reality. Romans 7:14-24 And from the sermons I have heard, and the literature and theology that I have read, most mature Christians seem to agree. That doesn't excuse sin, nor could it ever. False grace messages excuse sin, because they do not explain how God's grace transforms us and sets us free from sin. Meaning that those who preach it doesn't teach us about our new natures in Christ. Still, that does not mean that we have two different people inside, we still have only one body, one soul and one spirit each. It simply means that we have new life in Christ and our old tendency to sin still inside us that will keep tempting us. Again, as James 1:14 says, we are tempted away by our own sins. The lusts of the flesh coming from the world or demons could not affect us unless we are responding to something that is already inside us.

    Then why does Paul speak about the war of thr flesh vs Spirit as if it is inside our limbs, in our bodies?

    Since my calling is to expose the work of the devil inside the Church more than anything else, and it has been since I got saved, no, I do not think that he ignores the Church. Which is why we must read the Bible as it is written, and not as we would like it to be written.

    I don't see how what I wrote to you would make anyone weak in resisting the devil. It has overcome 99% of the sin in my life, because I put to death the sin in my flesh and walk as the new creation in Christ, and I have personally "seen" the devil flee from me many times after resisting him by submitting to God. I have heard other who believe your doctrines who have had a lot less success when resisting temptation, still having sinful addictions, because they don't understand that it is coming from inside us and that we are personally responsible to keep ourself pure and stay in Christ. Unless we place all trust in Jesus and in His teachings and the teachings of Paul, building our houses on the Rock, we will fail and keep failing.
     
  14. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    When God asked Adam and Eve what they had done after eating the fruit, Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the serpent. None of them took personal responsibility, but blamed something external. That is what you are doing when blaming the world for your own sins.
     
  15. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Satan can only do what God allows him to do.
     
  16. Cement

    Cement Active Member

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    Well firstly Satan is not omnipresent so he can't be everywhere listening to our audible prayers. He relies on a hierarchy of his fallen angels to report to him and his close subordinates. Secondly people have fooled demons before it's not like they can read our minds only God can read the Heart as the Bible states. The various evil entities play a very good guessing game and like to watch Christians in order to find their weaknesses. They also have hints as to what God may do with our lives and may use this against us however they can not thwart God's plans for us only we can. These beings can be resisted through prayer and by avoiding their temptations entirely. If Satan could read our minds like a book he would be considerably more powerful then he is. He couldn't guess what Job had in his mind.
     
  17. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    @Emli
    There is no further conversation. You are convinced already of your point of view, and I have no further interest in trying to convince you otherwise. At this point we must agree to disagree. I wish you the best in your walk with Christ.
     
  18. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    I wasn't looking to convince you nor be convinced by you, but rather to have a fruitful conversation based on Scripture that could help us both understand God better. Maybe you shouldn't try to push your convictions on others, and that could work the next time.
     
  19. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, that is true. Do you think I blame the world for sins I have committed? Then you do not understand my position at all.

    The cross is all about personal responsibility. Those who come to Christ have taken personal responsibility for their sins, which is why they confess their need for salvation. Even before the regeneration, there must be a recognition that even with a sin nature (which all have before the rebirth) we still have a choice not to act upon that impulse. It is always a choice on our part. Whether we react or think it through and respond, it is still our choice.

    We have a freedom of will to choose, and God does not make us choose anything. He states the consequences of our choices, as He did with Adam and Eve regarding dying if they ate the forbidden fruit, but He did not interfere with their choice. Nor does He interfere with our choices.

    The doctrine of retaining the sin nature after the new birth is as much a demonic doctrine as the teaching that God chooses some for salvation and some for damnation. Both doctrines provide excuses for not taking personal responsibility. Of course the counter argument is that what I say is works and not grace. That is also nonsense. There was no way my sin nature could be changed in my own effort, and there is no way my walk with Christ can be maintained by my own effort. But in both cases I can still choose to ask for help from God. I do not have the wisdom on my own to walk with Christ in my own strength. But I have the honesty to see my need for help and to petition his grace daily in all my endeavors. Asking is a choice and is part of personal responsibility.

    As I said, Emili, I have no interest in convincing you of my position. You have your mind made up already, so conversation can not move forward. Thank you for your chat. Again, best wishes to you in your walk with Christ.
     
  20. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture without Spirit understanding is natural wisdom.
     
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