Can Salvation be lost?

[BNR32FAN]

Back from where ?

Has the relationship somehow been severed ?

It can be severed.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The Greek word translated to “takes away” means to be removed from its place but when used in reference to something that is attached to something it means to cut off or remove.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Back from where ?

Has the relationship somehow been severed ?

Have you ever contemplated Paul’s words in 2 Timothy 2:12?

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This is a very powerful message here because the words “we” and “us” refer to Paul and Timothy.

 

[A_Thinker]

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

These have been severed from Christ ... by striving to be justified by the Law. They were not living according to grace.
According to Hebrews 6, if you have been severed, "it is impossible" to renew your relationship ...

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come,

6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing that they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to open shame.

 

[A_Thinker]

Have you ever contemplated Paul’s words in 2 Timothy 2:12?

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This is a very powerful message here because the words “we” and “us” refer to Paul and Timothy.

Sounds like we should not deny Him ...

 

[BNR32FAN]

These have been severed from Christ ... by striving to be justified by the Law. They were not living according to grace.
According to Hebrews 6, if you have been severed, "it is impossible" to renew your relationship ...

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come,

6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing that they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to open shame.

I don’t believe that is the message in Hebrews 6. I believe the author was saying that for those who have partaken of the Holy Spirit and have fallen away there is nothing more we can present to them that will bring them back into repentance. That’s why he began with saying

“Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The author wants to press on leaving behind the fundamental teachings because those who have received the Holy Spirit already know this and if they have fallen away there’s nothing more we can say to them to bring them back to repentance that they don’t already know.

 

[Hammster]

All of this is answered in John 15:2.

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

There’s your answer, so what’s your point?

And even with that, you don’t see the flaw in your theology.

 

[Hammster]

Indeed, if we took that view, the North Sentinelese and various uncontacted tribes would surely be damned.

They may just be.

 

[Hammster]

Believing in Christ is a work now? Having faith in Christ is a work?

According to Jesus, it’s the only work that we do to be saved.

 

[prophecy_uk]

OK people, here we go again, beginners class.


God is building His temple and church, and the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets and Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone.

While building, the work has to be tried by fire, because Gods building ( which they are) has to be made perfect, and that is why they must all be perfectly joined together in one mind ( of Christ) and if anyone does anything incorrectly, it is corrected by the fire ( by God) as the building has to be together for Gods habitation through the Spirit..



1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.


When people who build against the Lords building speak, they speak for what they seek to build, which is themselves, their own self and their own desires and own life, if someone had lost their life to follow Christ, they are doing what He did, continuing in His sufferings, His laying of life down, and all to the glory of God, as seen in Christ, and confirmed that this is for the church..



Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
.

 

[The Liturgist]

They may just be.

Well, on this point I think the Scholastic theologians had the right idea with the doctrine of Invincible Ignorance.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Who should our mind be on, on people who save nobody, or on God who can save us from hell...



Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[ozso]

God will always be calling backsliders to come back to repentance since they are sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, but He will not drag them back against their will. The Holy Spirit will always be convicting them of their sin and they will know it, but He will not force anyone to comply.

What about someone who's severely addicted and can't overcome sin, even though they want to?

 

[prophecy_uk]

Addiction is living life for ourselves, the way to Christ is to lose our life to find it again


Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What about someone who's severely addicted and can't overcome sin, even though they want to?

Do you think anything is impossible for God?

 

[The Liturgist]

What about someone who's severely addicted and can't overcome sin, even though they want to?

I think this is a very good point insofar as it applies to nearly everyone in some way or another, due to the prevalence of vices, hence the need for faith.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

All sin that we love more than God is an addiction.

 

[prophecy_uk]

LovesGodsword: "All sin that we love more than God is an addiction"


Sin is what is not of faith...


Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

[Hammster]

All sin that we love more than God is an addiction.

That would be all sin.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And even with that, you don’t see the flaw in your theology.

Your lack of willingness to give any sort of explanation proves your inability to do so. I’ve provided several lengthy explanations to support my theology. You on the other hand have only provided a minimalist of drive by pop shots with zero explanation at all. You bring nothing to the discussion to discuss because you already know that I will destroy any explanation you can provide by quoting the scriptures since your explanations are a directly contradiction to what is written. I’m right here ready to face any scripture anyone has to support my theology without any contradictions. I’m willing and able to do this because I know my theology is sound as it should be because it’s what the church has taught throughout the centuries from the very beginning. My theology wasn’t formulated 500 years ago.

 

[BNR32FAN]

According to Jesus, it’s the only work that we do to be saved.

No that’s not what He said at all. Please quote where you think He said that.