Can Salvation be lost?

[zoidar]

.

 

[A_Thinker]

What about it? I don’t see how this is relevant to the discussion.

Here Paul says that you can't preserve your salvation with works.

How then could you lose salvation due to lack of works ?

 

[A_Thinker]

Again your not giving any kind of explanation here your just quoting a few verses and not explaining how these relate to the discussion. Can you please elaborate on how these verses pertain to the discussion?

Paul says explicitly that salvation is not of works.

How then could you lose salvation due to lack of works ?

 

[zoidar]

My post was in response to another. I personally believe that God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.

True! But don't you think our prayers for unsaved matter? That someone might come to faith because of your prayer.

 

[A_Thinker]

I never mentioned anything about the Mosaic Law. Again you need to explain how this is relevant to the discussion.

Again, Paul says works have nothing to do with justification.

How then could you lose salvation due to lack of works ?

 

[Hammster]

I have looked at it as a whole and you know it because we’ve discussed John 15 at length several times. My theology doesn’t contradict a single word Jesus said and your’s clearly does. Jesus specifically stated that The Father cuts off branches IN HIM that don’t bear fruit and you say these branches were not in Him. I mean it doesn’t get any clearer than that, your directly contradicting what He said. I have verses 2, 4, 5, 6, & 7, in total support of my theology that clearly indicates that people who are in Christ can lose their salvation and you have verse 16 that doesn’t teach that they can’t. Nothing about verse 16 gives any indication that people who are in Christ cannot lose their salvation especially when you compare it to verse 7 since verse 16 is a reference to what He said in verse 7.

“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Because verse 16 is a reference to verse 7 it is no guarantee of their salvation since their salvation is hinged upon the uncertain conditions that they abide in Him and His words abide in them. We know these conditions are uncertain because of His use of the word “IF” in verse 7. So because of this you can’t rightly say that since He chose them their fruit will remain or that they will abide in Him since every indication He gave in verses 2-5 were based on them abiding in Him and bearing fruit. They way you interpret verse 16 ignores everything He just said in verses 1-7 about bearing fruit and abiding in Him. So no, I'm not the one who doesn’t look at John 15 as a whole, you are.

Then let me ask you these questions. One, who does God prune? Two, why does He prune? And three, what is the result of His pruning?

 

[Hammster]

True! But don't you think our prayers for unsaved matter? That someone might come to faith because of your prayer.

Matter in what way? Are you asking if there are possibly some folks who die in their sins because we don’t pray for them?

 

[zoidar]

Matter in what way? Are you asking if there are possibly some folks who die in their sins because we don’t pray for them?

Yes!

In the same way some people die in their sins because we don't share the gospel.

 

[Hammster]

Yes!

In the same way some people die in their sins because we don't share the gospel.

I don’t hold to the view that God needs us in order to save people.

 

[A_Thinker]

Yes!

In the same way some people die in their sins because we don't share the gospel.

Do you believe that God, Who allowed His Sin to on the cross to save us ... would allow any not to be saved ... who could have been saved ?

 

[zoidar]

Do you believe that God, Who allowed His Sin to on the cross to save us ... would allow any not to be saved ... who could have been saved ?

Yes...

Potentially every human being could have been saved. I believe Jesus took the punishment for all sin in the world.

 

[zoidar]

I don’t hold to the view that God needs us in order to save people.

Neither do I... He doesn't even need the Bible to save someone...

 

[BNR32FAN]

Here Paul says that you can't preserve your salvation with works.

How then could you lose salvation due to lack of works ?

I never said anything about works.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Paul says explicitly that salvation is not of works.

How then could you lose salvation due to lack of works ?

Again I never mentioned anything about works.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Again, Paul says works have nothing to do with justification.

How then could you lose salvation due to lack of works ?

Please quote where I said anything even remotely pertaining to works.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then let me ask you these questions. One, who does God prune? Two, why does He prune? And three, what is the result of His pruning?

All of this is answered in John 15:2.

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

There’s your answer, so what’s your point?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Do you believe that God, Who allowed His Sin to on the cross to save us ... would allow any not to be saved ... who could have been saved ?

Everyone could be saved, that’s why Christ died for everyone.

 

[The Liturgist]

I don’t hold to the view that God needs us in order to save people.

Indeed, if we took that view, the North Sentinelese and various uncontacted tribes would surely be damned.

 

[zoidar]

Indeed, if we took that view, the North Sentinelese and various uncontacted tribes would surely be damned.

Does anyone hold that view?

 

[A_Thinker]

Yes...

Potentially every human being could have been saved. I believe Jesus took the punishment for all sin in the world.

So then ... it's not God Who is doing the saving, ... because God accomplishes what He sets out to do ...