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Hey if you want to admit you don't have faith in Jesus Christ to save you from your sins, that's on you, but just because you're a member of the Orthodox church doesn't make you any more saved than me, who strives to be faithful in Christ Jesus.it was unified in faith and morals. simply because people struggled doesn't mean the Church wasn't one. we are not one in faith and doctrine, so either one or both of us is not in the Church, but we both cannot be
You said the following, "as to the OP, those outside the Church are not saved. however, for many their joining the Church will happen at death or on Judgment Day. this is why we don't limit what God can do. many who were not Orthodox in this life will be in the age to come, and vice versa." That's obviously saying that those who are not Orthodox (those apart of the Orthodox church) are going to join the "true" church of Orthodox at their judgement. And I asked you to show me that in scripture, all you said was Romans 2 which doesn't even come close to supporting your statement. What didn't I read?well, that's you. you haven't given reason as to why you are correct, and you didn't really read what I read all that well.
Hey if you want to admit you don't have faith in Jesus Christ to save you from your sins, that's on you, but just because you're a member of the Orthodox church doesn't make you any more saved than me, who strives to be faithful in Christ Jesus.
You said the following, "as to the OP, those outside the Church are not saved. however, for many their joining the Church will happen at death or on Judgment Day. this is why we don't limit what God can do. many who were not Orthodox in this life will be in the age to come, and vice versa." That's obviously saying that those who are not Orthodox (those apart of the Orthodox church) are going to join the "true" church of Orthodox at their judgement. And I asked you to show me that in scripture, all you said was Romans 2 which doesn't even come close to supporting your statement. What didn't I read?
That's getting into a whole new topic and discussion, so I'll agree to disagree on that one. Good talk, friend.that is what Romans 2 says concerning the Gentiles who were out of the Church at the time. it actually only doesn't support what you said Romans 2 says. and of course the Bible doesn't use Orthodoxy. you gotta have heterodoxy to have Orthodoxy. so the same is only because bodies separated themselves from the Church.
That's getting into a whole new topic and discussion, so I'll agree to disagree on that one. Good talk, friend.
So someone could join the church after dying as a pagan?as to the OP, those outside the Church are not saved. however, for many their joining the Church will happen at death or on Judgment Day. this is why we don't limit what God can do. many who were not Orthodox in this life will be in the age to come, and vice versa.
So someone could join the church after dying as a pagan?
How exactly are they saved? Are they given an opportunity to accept Christ?yes, it is possible according to St Mark of Ephesus to even be in hades after death, so that you are saved on Judgment Day.
How exactly are they saved? Are they given an opportunity to accept Christ?
Didn't the early Fathers state that there was NO salvation outside of the church?Romans 2
We do not judge the salvation of any person.
You will often hear - we know where the Church is. We do not know where it isn't.
We know what we offer and that the grace of God works through the means which He has given us - the things the Orthodox Church maintains and offers to people.
But we cannot restrict the grace of God. He alone decides what He will do, how His grace can work in addition to what He has given, on who He will have mercy.
We have no place judging others - especially those outside the Church.
Didn't the early Fathers state that there was NO salvation outside of the church?
Isn't that the same as salvation though? Does 'salvation' mean saved in this life?yes, but that doesn't mean God is not at work in the lives of those outside her, to bring them into the Church even if after death. no salvation outside the Church, but only God knows when He calls people to that Church.
Isn't that the same as salvation though? Does 'salvation' mean saved in this life?
I still don't understand.Christ is our salvation and while we are limited to labor now, He isn't.
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