Can Intelligent Design be a Logical & Rational Answer?

[joshua 1 9]

ISIS also believes the world would be better off if all was under shariah rule.

Isis was made up of mercenaries. They just wanted to make enough money to buy themselves a sex slave wife. People with that sort of a concept of shariah law are going to get what they deserve. To often people confuse lawlessness with Shariah law. Only nations have the God given right to hire an army to defend themselves.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If life on Earth needed an external living source, then where and how did that living source originate?

Life on earth is carbon based so the "stuff" we are made of was produced in a star that burned out. Under pressure carbon can be used to make diamonds. We are oxygen based and that oxygen was produced by plants. We are a product of the light from the sun and the elements from the earth. In the Bible we learn that "God divided the light from the darkness." Then He gathered the water and let dry land appear.

 

[dmmesdale]

You do realize that all this does is push back the problem. If life on Earth needed an external living source, then where and how did that living source originate?

Is this a science standard or another unscientific which cannot be applied consistently? Its not even original. Dawkins was thumped on it, speaking of mistakes. First, cause is established then and only then do they move on to identity. You don't rule out a murderer because you do not know identity or heritage of the perp. You don't seek identity until a murder is established. How many errors are you allowed to make before you lose all credibility? You admit you review a book you have not read and claim to represent science. Scientists do their homework.

You're claiming that biogenesis prevents life from arising from non-life. I'm simply pointing out that this is a misunderstanding of biogenesis.

You are pointing out you have blind faith and are willing to throw science under the bus when it comes to your pre-set beliefs the source of all life here is exclusive nonliving. Yours is not any more scientific then Goldilocks and the three bears.

 

[pitabread]

Is this a science standard or another unscientific which cannot be applied consistently?

It's just pointing out the logical consequence of what you are claiming. Don't blame me if what you are saying makes no sense.

You are pointing out you have blind faith and are willing to throw science under the bus when it comes to your pre-set beliefs the source of all life here is exclusive nonliving.

All I did was point out that biogenesis does not explicitly prevent life arising from non-life. Any other conjecture is purely your own.

 

[pitabread]

You admit you review a book you have not read and claim to represent science. Scientists do their homework.

As an aside, I'm still waiting to hear what is so special about that particular book with respect to anything else published by IDists.

To re-iterate my prior questions, does Signature in the Cell contain any particular breakthroughs in ID research not otherwise already covered elsewhere?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Obviously. It would be kind of strange if you, as a bible believer, would think it would make the world worse, right?

ISIS also believes the world would be better off if all was under shariah rule.

That's a bunch of twisted around gobbldy gook that pretends to, but makes absolutely no point against the Bible at all if one is paying half a bit of attention when they read it..

You aren't paying attention....again. People are the problem.

The good things, aren't the problem.

Then what is the problem?

And it being good or bad, doesn't affect its truth value.

What do you mean "truth value"?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Major league projection.

Is that what we say when we have no real argument to present?

I was just responding to your general confusion as to why people can feel threatened by ideas they don´t believe in.

I know.

Oh sure, people will do whatever they want for whatever reasons they want. But that wasn't really my point. My point was simply to shed some light on why atheists will find themselves on religious web sites butting heads with religious folks.

I'm missing something then, why do they find themselves on religions websites?

And you use the term "religious websites", do you generally make it a habit of of trying to disrupt other religions on their sites or is it mostly just the Christian religion...you know, the real threat?

I understand you don't like the way I put the prior question but an honest answer would still be appreciated.

 

[bhsmte]

Is that what we say when we have no real argument to present?



I know.



I'm missing something then, why do they find themselves on religions websites?

And you use the term "religious websites", do you generally make it a habit of of trying to disrupt other religions on their sites or is it mostly just the Christian religion...you know, the real threat?

I understand you don't like the way I put the prior question but an honest answer would still be appreciated.

No, that is what I say when I observe major league projection, based on the content of your posts.

 

[Kenny'sID]

No, that is what I say when I observe major league projection, based on the content of your posts.

More of the same I see. Thanks for making things so clear.

 

[bhsmte]

More of the same I see. Thanks for making things so clear.

You too.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You too.

Funny how with some, it only comes down to getting the last word in, and nothing more.

I humbly relinquish the last word rights to Bhsmte.

 

[Speedwell]

Is that what we say when we have no real argument to present?



I know.



I'm missing something then, why do they find themselves on religions websites?

And you use the term "religious websites", do you generally make it a habit of of trying to disrupt other religions on their sites or is it mostly just the Christian religion...you know, the real threat?

I understand you don't like the way I put the prior question but an honest answer would still be appreciated.

For the same reason non-YEC Christians and other theists find their way here. "Biblical" Creationism is bad science and we don't want it in the public school science curriculum. You can go ahead and kid yourself that we're all together promoting an atheist agenda, if you want, but nobody else believes in it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You can go ahead and kid yourself that we're all together promoting an atheist agenda, if you want, but nobody else believes in it.

See? that's just flat out false, others do believe it. and it's spat out junk like that, that eventually forces me not to take you seriously.

You two can fight over the last word.

 

[bhsmte]

Funny how with some, it only comes down to getting the last word in, and nothing more.

I humbly relinquish the last word rights to Bhsmte.

One way to look at it.

 

[Speedwell]

See? that's just flat out false, others do believe it. and it's spat out junk like that, that eventually forces me not to take you seriously.

You two can fight over the last word.

I mean "you" as creationists, collectively. Yes, I know many creationists believe it. But nobody else does.

Consider the Seventh-day Adventists. They don't eat meat because they think the Bible tells them not to. Nobody else cares.

But suppose the SDAs started to push on hard on the rest of us to have meat removed from all public school cafeteria menus? Don't you think that there would be forums like this one where the subject was debated? Don't you think that non-SDA Christians and other theists would show up to argue with the atheists against it?

Would you denounce them as being part of an anti-Christian conspiracy?

 

[pitabread]

I'm missing something then, why do they find themselves on religions websites?

And you use the term "religious websites", do you generally make it a habit of of trying to disrupt other religions on their sites or is it mostly just the Christian religion...you know, the real threat?

I understand you don't like the way I put the prior question but an honest answer would still be appreciated.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I first started visiting religious web sites back when I was learning about different religious beliefs. I was interested in reconciling my own beliefs and figured exploring other belief systems would be a good way to do that. This included visiting this forum well over a decade ago.

As part of this search for understanding, I came across people that believed in creationism. At first I couldn't really believe it. I'd never heard of anyone who actually thought the world was only 6000 years old, Adam and Eve were real people, or that Noah's Ark was a literal, historical event. Even at a young age, I always considered those Biblical stories as being mythological, in the same way I viewed myths of other cultures. As I also had an interest in science, I began discussing and ultimately debating these topics.

What I found particularly egregious about the whole thing was the apparent influence creationists had over the American school system. From trying to push these concepts into schools and/or trying to silence the teaching of mainstream science, it seemed that creationists were (at the time) a surprisingly powerful force in American politics.

Eventually I hit upon a brick wall when I started to try to discuss applications of evolutionary biology, particularly related to phylogenetics. This was something which creationists had no answers for. So around a decade or so, I left the discussions and debates realizing it was going nowhere.

I only recently returned (under a different account) out of curiosity and to see what has transpired since. It's a bit remarkable to me to see the exact same discussions and debates from over 10 years ago, not to mention a lot of the same members doing the discussing. Nothing really has changed.

Anyway, that's why I am here.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I first started visiting religious web sites back when I was learning about different religious beliefs. I was interested in reconciling my own beliefs and figured exploring other belief systems would be a good way to do that. This included visiting this forum well over a decade ago.

As part of this search for understanding, I came across people that believed in creationism. At first I couldn't really believe it. I'd never heard of anyone who actually thought the world was only 6000 years old, Adam and Eve were real people, or that Noah's Ark was a literal, historical event. Even at a young age, I always considered those Biblical stories as being mythological, in the same way I viewed myths of other cultures. As I also had an interest in science, I began discussing and ultimately debating these topics.

What I found particularly egregious about the whole thing was the apparent influence creationists had over the American school system. From trying to push these concepts into schools and/or trying to silence the teaching of mainstream science, it seemed that creationists were (at the time) a surprisingly powerful force in American politics.

Eventually I hit upon a brick wall when I started to try to discuss applications of evolutionary biology, particularly related to phylogenetics. This was something which creationists had no answers for. So around a decade or so, I left the discussions and debates realizing it was going nowhere.

I only recently returned (under a different account) out of curiosity and to see what has transpired since. It's a bit remarkable to me to see the exact same discussions and debates from over 10 years ago, not to mention a lot of the same members doing the discussing. Nothing really has changed.

Anyway, that's why I am here.

Then you are saying you don't frequent sites of other religions, only Biblical Christianity. That's what I thought...the only one that threatens you and others.

On trying to push Creationism in schools, you really haven't a leg to stand on as the other side pushes and allows some of the biggest bunch of garbage ever into that same system.

Just to mention a fraction of the differences things...snap a pic of 10 random classroom from today's schools and compare them to 10 from the say, early 60's, and see what you find. Look at the TV today, and the early 60's and see the differences.

But even at that, some of you will still be cluelessly happy the Bible was removed. That's to say, don't get me wrong, I don't expect the comparison to change a thing in the way you think, it's just there for the seeing, just like the OP, but only IF you want to see it.

 

[pitabread]

Then you are saying you don't frequent sites of other religions, only Biblical Christianity. That's what I thought...the only one that threatens you and others.

Where did you get that from? I have visited sites of a variety of religions, as well as directly interacting with people of all faiths.

On trying to push Creationism in schools, you really haven't a leg to stand on as the other side pushes and allows some of the biggest bunch of garbage ever into that same system.

What 'garbage'? The Theory of Evolution? As I said, it's an applied science; it's used in the real world today as we speak in a variety of industries. Anyone wanting to pursue a career in biology is going to need to understand it.

Just to mention a fraction of the differences things...snap a pic of 10 random classroom from today's schools and compare them to 10 from the say, early 60's, and see what you find. Look at the TV today, and the early 60's and see the differences.

Such as what? Do you have something specific to discuss?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Isis was made up of mercenaries. They just wanted to make enough money to buy themselves a sex slave wife. People with that sort of a concept of shariah law are going to get what they deserve. To often people confuse lawlessness with Shariah law. Only nations have the God given right to hire an army to defend themselves.

I agree. Nonetheless, they believe they are on a holy mission and that the world would be better off under shariah law.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's a bunch of twisted around gobbldy gook that pretends to, but makes absolutely no point against the Bible at all if one is paying half a bit of attention when they read it..

I wasn't making a point against the bible. I was making a point about religious beliefs.

You aren't paying attention....again. People are the problem.

Obviously. For better or worse, the action are done by people, based on what they believe.

Then what is the problem?

Not the good things. Aka, the bad things.

What do you mean "truth value"?

That you liking religion X, doesn't make religion X true.
Just like not liking religion X, doesn't make religion X false.