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Can Herd Immunity Be Reached?

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by mark46, Jun 12, 2021.

  1. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,126
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    Let us say that 80% is the threshold; that is, 80% fully protected against COVID 19: those vaccinated plus those who have had the disease.

    In Bid America, the vaccination number will be well over 70%. The open question is the number who have already been infected.

    In the Trump Belt, the total numbers lag a bit. We need to wait until more and more are infected. But, the immunity level will likely be reached, just with lots more COVID infections. Death rates continue to go down because of better treatment choices.

    SOLUTIONS - TWO AMERICAS
    In Trump America, let the unvaccinated (including children) congregate wherever they want WITH EACH OTHER. Let them go with other unvaccinated to special cruises, to their own sections at ball games, to their own super-church assemblies, to weddings for the unvaccinated, and wherever else they choose to congregate.

    In the meantime, the solution in the rest of the country is simple. Vaccinate. Vaccinate. Vaccinate. Colleges will require vaccinations. Schools for those over 12 should (and likely) will require vaccinations. And just perhaps, young children can be vaccinated before the variants that favor children are dominant in the US.

    The US is open for business and pleasure. Concerts for the vaccinated will be held in the next couple of weeks in Biden America. Trump America can have its Concerts For The Unvaccinated if they wish to do so.

    THE RESULT
    The new cases will be reduced to almost zero in Biden America through vaccinations. In Trump America, cases will be reduced to almost zero a bit later, though hundreds of thousands of additional cases, but relatively few deaths.

    BOTTOM LINE
    Biden has decided not to enforce vaccinations or to have vaccination cards. AS TRUMP DID, he is leaving these choices to the states. However, it does seem that the end of the pandemic is in sight. The major future question marks are the vaccination of children, and the need for boosters against variants, especially those that affect children at a greater rate.

    A NOTE
    Obviously, those who live in Trump America will have an additional set of options.
     
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  2. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wait a second....
    If you are vaccinated why should you care about if you associate with non-vaccinated persons? Do you not trust your vaccination? I you don't then why did you get it? And if you do who cares who you associate with? Or is this just fear mongering? Or maybe a not so sly slap at Trump and his supporters?
     
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  3. GreatLakes4Ever

    GreatLakes4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Every person this virus infects is another chance for it to mutate. Most mutations are irrelevant, but if I t mutates in a way that it can beat our vaccines, we all go back to square one. It behooves us to limit the chances this virus gets. If enough people get vaccinated before it can find the mutation to escape our vaccines, the virus runs out of people to infect and it’s curtains on COVID-19. Do you want to go back to mid-March 2020? You’re flirting with it when you are talking about skipping vaccination.
     
  4. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Please point out to me where I even remotely alluded to any such thing

    So what are you going to do?.......Live your life in fear?......Stay away from the 'others'.......Have them isolated because you are afraid?.......Have you ever received a vaccine that was 100% effective?.......If so, I'd love to hear about it........
     
  5. Pommer

    Pommer Autodidact polymath Supporter

    +4,409
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    There’s a fifty-fifty chance that it mutates to a less virulent, less deadly form. A “bad cold”. It’s already endemic. It’ll go either way, the only thing that we can do until the cases start letting us know which way it’s going to break...is to put it off as long as is possible. That’s why we need herd immunity.

    This notion that “we might as well get it over with” attitude is a valid viewpoint, but imma go with the kick-it-down-the-road, stretch out the time as long as possible.
     
  6. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

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    I'm not motivated exclusively by self-interest. If you care about your fellow Americans, then you'll want them to get vaccinated. If we want to defeat this virus, we have to work together.

    If you've never had polio, it's because of herd immunity in the United States. We can do our part to protect future generations by ensuring we all get vaccinated.

    Polio Elimination in the U.S.
     
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  7. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

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    It doesn't have to be 100% effective if we achieve herd immunity.

    This video will give you a pretty good overview of the epidemic, endemic, and eradication phases of infectious disease. Our goal is to successfully hit that eradication phase.

     
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  8. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What exactly does this have to do with the questions I asked?
     
  9. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't believe you understand what herd immunity actually means:
    : a reduction in the risk of infection with a specific communicable disease (such as measles or influenza) that occurs when a significant proportion of the population has become immune to infection (as because of previous exposure or vaccination) so that susceptible individuals are much less likely to come in contact with infected individuals Merriam-Webster
    Far too many people take herd immunity to mean complete immunity for a population which is not true......

    The only disease that has been successfully eradicated (TTBOMK) is smallpox and that is only after a many decades long effort against it.

    I skipped to the very end of your video looking for the source and did not find any organization that I recognized as authoritative so I just decline to view it. Maybe try something better........
     
  10. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

    +42,476
    Christian
    I believe my state is very close to herd immunity but then we may have a spike because of illegals coming here bringing it with them but once they infect those around them and get enough of themselves immune in 6-8 weeks perhaps the numbers will fall even lower.
     
  11. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

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    I'll break it down in more detail for you

    I want the people I associate with and their families to survive this pandemic. I care if they live or die. I'm not concerned that my association with them will kill me. I care about other people.

    I'm not afraid I'll catch the virus from them or that they'll catch it from me.

    I'm not sure what you're asking here.

    I'm not sure what you're asking here, either.

    No.

    No. Some of those friends and family I associate with are Trump supporters, and I would prefer they survive this pandemic.

    This doesn't need to be a partisan thing. We all have a vested interest in defeating this virus.
     
  12. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

    +9,473
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    There will be countries and some progressive states that will reach herd immunity, and then there are states full of belligerently self destructive people. We can only hope that these countries and states will serve as models for the others.
     
  13. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

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    Why would I waste my time providing you with resources if you'll just ignore them? That's not much incentive for me to provide you with any more evidence, is it?
     
  14. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Consider the self destructive states. Their vaccination rates may only reach 50%. The open question is how many will get COVID, or have already had COVID. In the end (truly the end for many), they may reach hered immunity because enough people get infected.
     
  15. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If there are mutants that where our vaccines aren't effective, then the companies will have boosters to treat the new vaccines in a couple of months. They are constantly working on them, just in case one of the variants proves untreatable by current vaccines, none yet, after a BILLION vaccinations.
     
  16. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    But it is through the spread of COVID that mutations occur which perpetuate the disease in forms that could be more contagious, more deadly, more disabling, or all three.
     
  17. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

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    If you check out that video I posted earlier, it explains why you need a vaccination rate at roughly the target for herd immunity to successfully eradicate the disease from the population.

    Immunity isn't inherited when new children are born.

    With an R0 of 5.7, at least 82% of the population needs to be immune to COVID-19 to stop its transmission through vaccination and herd immunity.

    This is really hard to pull off, and even harder when people are actively avoiding the free vaccine.
     
  18. mama2one

    mama2one Well-Known Member

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    follow
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  19. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    Won't the latter reach herd immunity by killing a bunch of older folks - all the while voting for candidates who pay lip service to being pro-life?
     
  20. Tiberius Lee

    Tiberius Lee Well-Known Member

    +1,920
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    The party of pro-life who tells woman how to treat their body, they will not take vaccine and hide behind “ it’s my freedom, it’s my body, it’s my choice”. So , no I don’t think you will get hard immunity in USA. At least not in red states. But don't you worry, they will keep telling women what they should do with their body!
     
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