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Woke

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We don't have to wait till the next life for this to happen - see post #58
To the extent it happens in our next life we could never experience in this life.

As God says I am making all things new. That hasn't happened yet. That includes making new how we feel about past bad experiences. In the New World one of the greatest differences between that and now will be our feeling of total contentment. No one here can feel that, and we're not even made to feel that now. But then we will be.
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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While God is not constrained to our time line, I don't believe He reverses things (with one exception).

Thanks for sharing the exception in another post. I just found it!
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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Well, in short, I believe that when a believer goes apostate, God will go back in time to make it as if they were never actually one of us.

That is the very short version.

And now for the osas rebuttal...

(Sorry, didn't mean to derail)

This is scary.
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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Can He? Certainly. Does He? Nope.

I agree with you. As much as I wish God would, I don't believe He does.

But I do wish He answered my prayers with Yes more than No (or wait). That in itself would be helpful.

Thanks for your response.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Are you saying that post #58 is a false claim?
 
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Carl Emerson

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Well, in short, I believe that when a believer goes apostate, God will go back in time to make it as if they were never actually one of us.

That is the very short version.

And now for the osas rebuttal...

(Sorry, didn't mean to derail)

What you have done is caused folks to needlessly stress over supposedly losing their salvation. Not a clever move in my opinion.
 
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Sophrosyne

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But what about in response to prayer? It's not a "do-over," in this case. Rather, He would be answering a prayer request.
He already knows about your prayer in advance and decides based upon future knowledge what to do ahead of time.
 
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Toro

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I say that God absolutely COULD reverse time if He actually wanted to. However, Him being God, does not make nor allow mistakes that are outsise of His control and that all He allows is with purpose the "first time around."... so He doesnt need to reverse time.

As far as can God "erase" memories etc.... IF something can effect the human mind that is arguably "natural" for the mind to degrade and aging can cause someone to forget many things, even their own name... I dont see that "nature" or creation can out do its creator.. so... I dont see why He couldnt... I just dont believe in most cases He would...

Because IF one belongs to Him and loves Him, He works ALL things for their good.... all, meaning even those things which we, humans would consider "bad".. Romans 8:28 .... IF they trust in Him and His promise.. to do just that... they need not ask for Him to undo that which has been done..... now... whether God in His mercy allows that person to forget the trauma of any event or not is between that person and God and not my business.
 
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hellothere

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If you mean reverse time entirely instead of just wiping our brains, then it wouldn't be any different for him since the past and the future is now for God. God is the creator of time and exists outside of time. If he ever did wipe our brains then I guess we would never know. But I would see that as deceptive, even if for our sake. God doesn't lie and I think that would count as lying.
 
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Sorn

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You obviously don't think we have souls then?
 
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Sorn

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Did God reverse time in King Hezekiah's day when the sundial moved backwards 10 degrees? Or did He moved the earth back in its orbit?
Neither!! This is not reversing time. This is simply the manipulation of light or photons.
A shadow is an absence of light in an otherwise lit area. God can simply remove or stop photons from hitting the surface concerned and presto, you have a shadow.
Also read post #65.
 
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Sorn

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Physics has yet to decide if time is a fundamental property of the universe or an emergent one that is merely measurable!!

If you also think and believe we are spirit as well or that we have souls then there is no reason or need whatsoever for God to go back in time to retrieve a persons body.

Remember, in the resurrection we get clothed with a new body, much different and better than the last. What is important is that we have souls that preserve who we are after our death.
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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Interesting take. Thank you for sharing.

Yes, the devil is the author of confusion and the father of lies.
 
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Ricky M

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What you have done is caused folks to needlessly stress over supposedly losing their salvation. Not a clever move in my opinion.
I didn't want to turn this into an osas thread so I'll let that go with this: it's not an issue that will affect most of us. And the few who would stress over it don't understand the issues involved.
 
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Ricky M

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This is scary. And I think it's happening to me. But I want nothing more than to be one of God's. Now what? I'd rather be dead than live without God, quite frankly.

Also, how do you know this? Scripture or firsthand knowledge?
First off, the ONLY way to be saved is to believe in your heart and confess with your lips that Jesus Christ is the sacrificed Son Of God. Thus, the only way to 'lose' it is to stop believing and deny Him. If you haven't done that you have nothing to worry about. And, if you are worried, you haven't done it, because someone who had done it wouldn't be worried.

Now, are you really worried or was that to lend credence to Carl's post?
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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I didn't want to turn this into an osas thread so I'll let that go with this: it's not an issue that will affect most of us. And the few who would stress over it don't understand the issues involved.

I have a question. If some fall away, and God knows everything, why would He have to go back in time to erase them? Wouldn't He already know they weren't one of us and make provisions for that? I mean, why the pretense?

Also, why does there need to be a falling away? It's cruel; both for believers (instills fear) and especially for those that were so close to inheriting the kingdom only to lose it. It is the saddest condition of all. It's cruel, actually.
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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I am straight up worried. But in fairness, I've been through a lot these last two years.

Thanks for responding. God bless.
 
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Ricky M

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I am straight up worried. But in fairness, I've been through a lot these last two years.

Thanks for responding. God bless.
Really didn't mean to derail this thread, but it is your thread and you seem genuinely concerned so here goes.

First, let me just reassure you. There is one and only one way God imparts the grace of salvation upon someone... and that is when they believe and confess Christ. That's it. There is no good deed you could ever do that would add anything to that. (Not to say good deeds don't have their place but that's another discussion).

Conversely, there is no bad deed you could ever do that would take salvation away. Since it hinges on belief and confession, bad deeds do not erase God's grace. (Not to say that bad deeds don't have their place, but that's yet another discussion).

Believe and confess. You're in. Dis-believe and deny and you're out.

I hope that helps calm your nerves and give you a litmus test by which to judge your real position.

Now, the Bible seems to be at odds with itself on the subject. There are verses that say once His God will never let us go, yet there are also passages that clearly say there are those who will taste God's grace and turn away. And that stickler of 'they were never with us' of those who do. The basic arguments are, can one fall out of a tree they never climbed into, and if one climbs that tree and falls out of it, were they really ever in the tree to begin with?

Most people play one set of verses against the other, thus the endless debate. Me, I think how can these opposites be really both true?

Whiiich brings us back to your question of time travel. I believe God has access to all of time, all of the time (yet another discussion). I also believe that God's knowing everything that's going to happen, doesn't mean He causes those things to happen. So, He watches Joe go to church and come to believe, and God writes Joe's name in the book of life. Joe after many years backslides, falling deeper and deeper into sin. No matter how deep Joe sinks he's still saved - until that point satan puts him in a position of having to confirm his faith. Joe then abandons belief and denies Christ.

God then goes back in 'our time' and erases Joe's name from the Book, making to be as if it were never there from the beginning.

Time goes on and eventually we'll meet our maker and the Book will be opened. Joe's name won't be there, just as if it never was. But clearly, in our time line at least, it was at one point there.

Take a breath. Remember you asked for this

OK, Peter denied Christ. 3 times to be exact. But he never stopped believing in Him. That's part of the equation. Joe stopped believing. That's the difference between backsliding and apostasy. One is not walking the walk. The other is denying there IS a Walk.

Hope that helps
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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Thank you for this. God bless.
 
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