Of course it does not mean that.
No one said that it did.
Of course it doesn't.
No one said that it does.
We all slip up. Paul slipped up. Peter slipped up. I slip up. You slip up.
That shows that we are all too human with and old nature as well.
That does not show that we are not of God.
The deeds of men do indeed display whether they are of God and whether they are of God and all too human like Paul, Peter, you and me.
They may also display those who are not of God.
What's the point? I would hope that it isn't that Paul, you, and I are not of God because we slip up.
I am not of that belief.
My beliefs are quite to the contrary as I have said many times.
Dead is used many ways in the Bible to illustrate many conditions.
Are you insinuating that the Prodigal Son, Paul, and Peter were or that you and I are spiritually un-regenerated when we do these "slip" ups you referred to?
Are you of the belief that we can and will be regenerated every time we truly repent and return to the Father? Are we ordered off the throne where we are seated with Christ every time we slip up?
Or is it that you disbelieve the scriptures and believe that we will only be placed in that state after we have proven ourselves worthy when our life is examined in the end?
Of course.
When did I "change" many verses?
Who said that we are "in the faith" while "slipping up"?
You believe that those who have passed from death to life can come again into condemnation. Talk about changing verses.
Until you acknowledge that that verse can only be taken one way and that you believe the Lord - we will never be able to discuss the alternative ways that many others look at the scriptures you so often refer to.
It appears to me that you have are not in the faith at this time - if you ever were.
People from "my side" of the discussion readily acknowledge every scripture you so often put forward. But - of course - we approach them from a different paradigm.
You - on the other hand - will not acknowledge the scriptures we put forward. The quotation from the Lord which I referred to is a prime example of such. That verse can only be taken one way and that is that "true" believers can never be lost and go to Hell.
Until you acknowledge what the Lord clear said - discussion with you is useless.
Matthew 13:41-42 clearly says that those in Christ's Kingdom who commit offense (sin) and iniquity (intense sin) will be gathered up by His angels and cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the lake of fire).
The Bible also says that the unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness whereby there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30). Gnashing of teeth is what Stephen the apostle experienced from those individuals who stoned him. Gnashing of teeth is what wolves do. Not saints. Being cast into outer darkness does not sound like a nice place, too.
Also, in Revelation 3, it is written,
15 "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and
that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."
(Revelation 3:15-19).
I am sorry, the passage above here does not sound like Eternal Security to me.
Then there is Revelation 2 that says,
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and
I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but
are the synagogue of Satan.
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast
some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
(Revelation 2:9-11).
Nothing here about a belief alone on Jesus with no works that saves you. We are told that if we are faithful unto death, we will receive the crown of life. Is not the crown of life equal to having eternal life? Is not he that overcomes in all these trials not going to be hurt by the second death? Is not the second death the Lake of Fire? (Revelation 21:8). Does this sound like a belief alone on Jesus? James says we are justified by works and not by faith only. (James 2:24).
Meaning salvation is not Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism like the Pharisees believed and salvation is not Easy Believism whereby a person falsely thinks that nothing they could ever really do can effect their salvation (Which is basically telling people that they can have a license to sin - whether you agree with that conclusion or not). For people tend to do the wrong and not the right thing. Unless of course they have been truly born again. Then they have a chance or shot at doing the right thing.
As for believers stumbling into sin: Well, nowhere did I ever say that such a thing was not possible. The difference between the Biblical teaching of Conditional Security vs. (versus) the two most popular versions of Eternal Security is that:
Conditional Security is like the alcoholic who stumbles on occasion on his road to recovery in being sober and alcohol free;
Whereas in the two most popular versions of Eternal Security it is like the alcoholic who stumbles into alcoholism the rest of their life and yet they claim they are free of their alcohol.
The one individual sounds like they have been reformed.
The other does not.
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