Can Christians be Demonized?

[mortsmune]

I think this should show that this is actually a major topic in scripture-- not just a sideline. The scriptures in the above posts are just the ones from the gospels-- not even including anything from the rest of the New Testament.


With so much scripture devoted to this topic (almost 1/3 of Jesus' ministry), why shouldn't we, following in Christ's footsteps, see this as a regular part of our life and ministry?

Amen, Father Rick!

 

[Godzchild]

All this proves Mortsmune is that there are a lot of people who do not know who they are in Christ! And these same people are being moddycottled and not taught the power and authority they have in Jesus Christ. They are the annointed!!!

 

[mortsmune]

All this proves Mortsmune is that there are a lot of people who do not know who they are in Christ! And these same people are being moddycottled and not taught the power and authority they have in Jesus Christ. They are the annointed!!!

If the enemy can touch those people, then he can touch us. And you have just proven your own statement to be untrue.

 

[Questioning Christian]

There is also an enourmous difference between a rowdy drunk, who is a human being for whom Christ died whom we as Christians are commanded to love, and a demon who is absolutely and completely evil, who is utterly beyond redemption, and whose only purpose and desire is to destroy God's works and destroy all love and joy and destroy all those who follow Jesus.

And there is also a difference between Christians who believe they have power over Satan, and Christians who would rather focus on Satan's power over them.

 

[Godzchild]

If the enemy can touch those people, then he can touch us. And you have just proven your own statement to be untrue.

I know who I am in Christ! And that is what I preach and that is what I tell people who THINK they are under curses. I tell them they are not!!! And not to believe in lies!

 

[Questioning Christian]

Who is this uncircumcised devil, that he should defy the armies of the living God? Does the greater one dwell inside you? Okay, then, quit talking about the enemy! Keep your eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith!

I am so sick of all this "devil talk". You are doing more to attract him than to repel him. He hates it when you talk about Jesus. He loves it when you talk about him incessantly, and give him all that attention.

 

[Questioning Christian]

And what is that scripture about Christ keeping us, and the wicked one not touching us?

 

[Godzchild]

How soon they forget

 

[Questioning Christian]

If you need deliverance so bad, and if you are so weak, and your defenses are so full of holes, then you are serving the wrong god. Go find yourself another who has the power to protect you.

We're sitting here giving glory to the devil, instead of going out there into the world, and defeating His works by walking in Christ!

When a runner runs, he does not obsess about falling down, does not obsess about the other runners, does not obsess about his shoelace possibly coming untied, does not obsess about the fact that he might lose, does not obsess about all these distractions!

He obsessess about running that race, and winning that race. There is not a thought that he might lose. If you are ready to lose, and if you concede that possibility, then you shouldn't be in the race. Get out of it. I am not in this race to lose. I am not in this race to get behind other runners. I am in this race to win, and let the devil be hanged.

 

[Joy]

I am not certain what would constitute proof to you. I can only say that there are many passages in scripture that warn us that the enemy can indeed touch us. Jesus told us to pray "deliver us from the evil one." In addition, all you have to do is open your eyes and take your head out of the sand and you will realize that the church is filled with people whom the enemy has indeed touched.

Frankly, I find it quite amazing that anyone that doesn't live alone on some island would even believe that the enemy cannot touch us. I have been a believer for 45 years. I have counseled hundreds of believers over those years. I have found that the enemy indeed does touch and affect and torment and bind multitudes of God's children. To deny that is just that--denial.

When Paul tells us to resist the devil, why on earth would we need to do that, if the devil cannot touch us. Pauls calls it warfare. You can hardly call it warfare when the enemy has no power over you.

The question is utterly irrational, both from a biblical perspective and from an experienital perspective. To believe and teach that the enemy is powerless to touch us is a very dangerous teaching; it is not a biblical teaching, and it goes against all the evidence.

In the final analysis, I suppose it is not possible for me to prove to you what I say; you have apparently expended a great deal of energy convincing yourself that what you believe is true against the biblical evidence and against the real-life evidence.

I only pray by God's mercy that others will not believe what you say and allow themselves to be lulled into false faith and false security while the enemy laughs himself silly over Christian ignorance and gullibility.

Woe unto them that are at ease in Zion.

It is easy to to say we should just know who we are in Christ and assume a Christian who struggles with torments etc is not really saved. But I for one know the reality of such things, and totally am glad people like Mortsmume and Father Rick have shared. These brothers are balanced in their views and do not glorify the devil in what they share from real life experience. It is so easy to judge when you have not been there. Jesus is still healing the broken hearted and setting the captives free.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Who is this uncircumcised devil, that he should defy the armies of the living God? Does the greater one dwell inside you? Okay, then, quit talking about the enemy! Keep your eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith!

I am so sick of all this "devil talk". You are doing more to attract him than to repel him. He hates it when you talk about Jesus. He loves it when you talk about him incessantly, and give him all that attention.

Ah yes, but the devil is less than pleased when we children of God can come along and share our testimonies of how the Lord Jesus Christ delivered us from his snares!

I don't know how to describe to you, explain to you, justify my own experience. I don't understand it all, but I do know this; for years I had struggled against my enemy, even after becoming a Christian, and even after being filled by the Holy Spirit.
There was an oppressor on my back. I was weighed down.

BUT the power of God has delivered me, and the prayer of my brothers and sisters was a great part of that.
I know nothing, nothing at all, except that I was not so free as I should have been, and now I am.

Praise the mighty name of Jesus!

Blessings, love Sue

 

[The Julikenz]

Sorry guys- mistaken closure.

 

[LeeS]

All this proves Mortsmune is that there are a lot of people who do not know who they are in Christ! And these same people are being moddycottled and not taught the power and authority they have in Jesus Christ. They are the annointed!!!

This is true Godzchild. However, in the meantime "who's" voice are they listening to and following? If they don't know their authority and are therefore not taking it "who" is it that is getting the upper hand?

 

[mortsmune]

And there is also a difference between Christians who believe they have power over Satan, and Christians who would rather focus on Satan's power over them.

No one here is focusing on the Satans' power over them. If you think that, then you are completely misunderstanding what yoy have been reading here. Or else you are not reading the posts very throroughly. Your accusation is just that, an accusation. It is without foundation.

 

[Questioning Christian]

No one here is focusing on the Satans' power over them. If you think that, then you are completely misunderstanding what yoy have been reading here. Or else you are not reading the posts very throroughly. Your accusation is just that, an accusation. It is without foundation.

There is no accusation, only observation. The statement is true, and still stands:

there is also a difference between Christians who believe they have power over Satan, and Christians who would rather focus on Satan's power over them.

I wholeheartedly stand by my comment. "The Lord Is My Banner" has a balanced point of view, not belonging to my comment. But the fact is, that some Christians would rather sit around and fret about what the devil might do, than think on what God is actually doing, and has done.

The cross is greater than that which defies it.

As I mentioned before, you can run a race thinking about your shoelaces coming untied, thinking about other runners trying to push you down, thinking about how hungry you are, thinking about how ugly your outfit is, or you can obsess about running that race, and about winning that race.

The enemy is only a hurdle. The enemy is not the focus of the race, as many deliverance-minded Christians would believe.

 

[LeeS]

The cross is greater than that which defies it.

This is true

As I mentioned before, you can run a race thinking about your shoelaces coming untied, thinking about other runners trying to push you down, thinking about how hungry you are, thinking about how ugly your outfit is, or you can obsess about running that race, and about winning that race.

This is true too. However, what if one's shoelaces have come untied, and there are other runners pushing them down, and one has not eaten adequately enough to sustain them for the race? Would there not be concern as to what is needed to do in order to take care of these issues? Does one just ignore them and pretend there is nothing wrong? Just keep running and all these things will fix themselves?

The enemy is only a hurdle. The enemy is not the focus of the race, as many deliverance-minded Christians would believe.

I beleive this is not true. The enemy is not only a hurdle. The enemy is able to get a foothold in any race where shoelaces have come untied and caused the unattentive runner to fall face first into the dirt and they are not even able to get up because they have have not supped as they should with the Lord. The runners pushing them down are not true runners of the race but runners who are specifically there to trip them along the way. It's true the enemy is NOT the focus of the race but if one's face is ground only in the dirt what else is their mouth and eyes full of?

I think there may be a "few" deliverance minded Christians as you describe but I have not seen any of them here.

I really don't understand what it is that you see as wrong with people being set free. Jesus did it. All the apostles did it. If you see an issue in someones life and you can help do you not tell them what they need to do to get rid of it? If they are not strong enough to do it on their own do you not, as a brother in the Lord help do battle for them? Is'nt that what intercessory prayer is all about?

 

[Questioning Christian]

The problem is not in people being set free. Of course, if you encounter a problem during a race, you have to fix it. Problems will come. But, if all before and during the race, your mind is obsessing on anything but running and winning, then you are distracted.

In the course of running, you will find problems. The issue is, "will you let them dominate your thinking?", to the point that you cannot even run a race without a tormenting thought of what might go wrong?

 

[californiadreamin]

Psalm 105:15
"Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm
1 John 5:18
We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ's divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].
1 Peter 3:13
Now who is there to hurt you if you are zealous followers of that which is good?
Luke 10:19
Behold! I have given you authority and power to trample upon serpents and scorpions, and [physical and mental strength and ability] over all the power that the enemy [possesses]; and nothing shall in any way harm you.
2 Thessalonians 3:3
Yet the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen [you] and set you on a firm foundation and guard you from the evil [one].
1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also [especially] thank God continually for this, that when you received the message of God [which you heard] from us, you welcomed it not as the word of [mere] men, but as it truly is, the Word of God, which is effectually at work in you who believe [ exercising its superhuman power in those who adhere to and trust in and rely on it].
Psalm 91:1
HE WHO dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall remain stable and fixed under the shadow of the Almighty [Whose power no foe can withstand].
Matthew 10:1
AND JESUS summoned to Him His twelve disciples and gave them power and authority over unclean spirits, to drive them out, and to cure all kinds of disease and all kinds of weakness and infirmity
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter [Greek, Petros--a large piece of rock], and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the infernal region) shall not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it].
Mark 6:7
And He called to Him the Twelve [apostles] and began to send them out [as His ambassadors] two by two and gave them authority and power over the unclean spirits.
John 14:30
I will not talk with you much more, for the prince (evil genius, ruler) of the world is coming. And he has no claim on Me. [He has nothing in common with Me; there is nothing in Me that belongs to him, and he has no power over Me.] We belong to Christ, if he has no power over Christ he has no power over us.
John 16:33
I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.] The prince of the world:^John 14:30
Acts 10:38
How God anointed and consecrated Jesus of Nazareth with the [Holy] Spirit and with strength and ability and power; how He went about doing good and, in particular, curing all who were harassed and oppressed by [the power of] the devil, for God was with Him.

Christians cannot be possessed by demons, we can be oppressed by demons if God allows as in Job or with Peter when The devil asked could he sift them like wheat or we can become oppressed if we are habitually walking in sin.

 

[Godzchild]

This is true Godzchild. However, in the meantime "who's" voice are they listening to and following? If they don't know their authority and are therefore not taking it "who" is it that is getting the upper hand?

If they are the sheep then they WILL hear the shepherd's voice and follow him.

The key is to remind them who they are in Christ, not tell them that they have devils and stuff that they need to cut off or cast out pppfffftttt

 

[LeeS]

If they are the sheep then they WILL hear the shepherd's voice and follow him.

Surely you're not saying that IF they are sheep they will be perfect? Or are you possibly saying that because they don't hear His voice well yet they are not His sheep?

The key is to remind them who they are in Christ, not tell them that they have devils and stuff that they need to cut off or cast out pppfffftttt

Who said anything about telling them they had devils? Jesus tells us we have an enemy who roams around as a roaring lion. Jesus tells us "draw near to God resist the devil and he will flee". Jesus cast out devils and delivered many people from oppression. And, when do you teach them these things? While the demons are manifesting or after you've cast them out and the persons mind is clear? Or do you just slap their hand and say "stop that" and pretend what you just saw or heard did not really happen?

I use to have the same attitude toward this that you seem to have. I agree that people need to know who they are in Christ. However, it is the Word that tells us to "cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light" (Rom 13:12). That piece of scripture was written to believers. According to the law of sowing and reaping works of darkness brought darkness and those works needed to be cast off.

I don't go around telling people they have demons but I sure do know the signs of when they do. And it very rarely looks the way Hollywood has filmed it.

As someone told me once, count yourself blessed if you have never had to deal with reaping the works of darkness because there are many who have and do and they need others to help them, not just say, "oh you're a child of the King, you should'nt be acting like that". While that MAY work on those who are only dealing with self-centeredness it does not work on those who are truly being attacked by the enemy and are needing help not just a slap on the hand and a once a week classroom teaching on what being a good Christian is.