Calvinistic view of Romans 9 refuted

[98cwitr]

Watching this now...will add thoughts after I finish the 45 minute viewing.

Points made:

1. Don't take it into context
2. Reading own bias into the passage
3. Don't go back and look at the OT quotes that Paul is quoting

My questions:

Doesn't God's mercy extend to salvation?
Was Pharaoh saved?

In conclusion:

Calvinists will extend the concept of "destruction" to salvation and damnation. Armenians cut that theology off short of salvation.

Never once was God's Omniscience mentioned or brought into the scope of discussion.

I think Jeremiah 18 speaks to the regeneration of man, and not to the sin that causes us to "be marred in God's hands." That would mean God does not have complete control over the clay, and if God is Omniscient, why mold that He knows that will be marred if He doesn't want it to be marred?

Do I have the power or control to turn from sin and repent without any influence or prompt from God?

Why does God "endure" [with suffering] anything? Because He does find pleasure in sending people to Hell? Maybe for the same reason I "endure" the heat while I cut grass?

 

[TaylorSexton]

The only way to "refute" Romans 9 is to not believe it.

 

[twin1954]

The only way to "refute" Romans 9 is to not believe it.

Or twist it into a mangled mess.

The sovereign electing love of God is the second most prominent doctrine of the Bible. Only the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ is more taught.

 

[TaylorSexton]

I have always found it amusing that people give Calvinists flack for, for instance, their treatment of the word "all," yet, when they encounter Romans 9:6-29, they can hardly read a sentence or two without short-circuiting: "But, but, but...nations, groups, justice, fairness, free will!" Unlike an in-depth word study on πᾶς (which is necessary because individual words carry no meaning without a context), a plain reading of Romans 9 seems conclusive to me.

 

[twin1954]

I have always found it amusing that people give Calvinists flack for, for instance, their treatment of the word "all," yet, when they encounter Romans 9:6-29, they can hardly read a sentence or two without short-circuiting: "But, but, but...nations, groups, justice, fairness, free will!" Unlike an in-depth word study on πᾶς (which is necessary because individual words carry no meaning without a context), a plain reading of Romans 9 seems conclusive to me.

God is clear when it comes to His sovereign electing love and I always wonder why folks have no problem with election in the Old Testament but when it come to them and their own salvation they must make the free will choice. It seems that God changed when Christ was born.

The simple truth is that God shows in almost every book of the Bible that it is He who saves by sovereignly directing man's choice.

Arminians must twist and distort Rom. 9 because it is the most clear passage but there are many more that they can't deal with either. They think that if they can refute the plain and clear reading of Rom. 9 they have defeated Calvinism.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

 

[Sovereign Grace]

 

[DeaconDean]

Somebody once said:

"People will let God be Sovereign everywhere but on His throne."

True words.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

Speaking from personal experience here in the Baptist area, the Semper Reformanda area, and the Soteriology area, I cannot think of more areas of theology which spark more "heated" debate as when the topics of "election", "predestinantion", and "perseverance" are brought up.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[MechPebbles]

Convicted1, those 2 pics you posted are truly hilarious, yet so meaningful. Thanks.

 

[Goodbook]

Meh, what is your problem?

God loves israel dont you read romans 10 which funnily enough follows on from romans 9.

 

[Goodbook]

Not to mention Romans 11. Heck , just read the whole Bible if you confused.

 

[TaylorSexton]

God loves israel dont you read romans 10 which funnily enough follows on from romans 9.

Not to mention Romans 11. Heck , just read the whole Bible if you confused.

I am confused as to the reason you are saying this.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Somebody once said:"People will let God be Sovereign everywhere but on His throne." True words. God Bless Till all are one.

Does this mean that they are on the throne(in their own head or heart or life) instead of Him ?


(Whether "Somebody" is right or wrong in this case (wrong most of the time according to Scripture) ..) and wrong all the time when He is not on The Throne, but He is ALWAYS on The Throne , so how could He not be on The Throne... ?? OY!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

.. those 2 pics you posted ..., yet so meaningful.

I didn't see any meaning in the pics... what meaning did you see in them ?

 

[TaylorSexton]

Does this mean that they are on the throne(in their own head or heart or life) instead of Him ?

He is basically saying that everyone is fine with a sovereign God until they realize that this sovereignty extends to them personally.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He is basically saying that everyone is fine with a sovereign God until they realize that this sovereignty extends to them personally.

I get it now. Thx.
Like when it is written "people will LOVVVE YOU SOOOO MUCH .....

until

they find out the God you serve REQUIRES A TOTAL LIFE CHANGE.....

then

they will turn viciously on you (killing you if they can, thinking they are doing God a favor) gnashing at you with their teeth (whatever all that means) . ''

 

[Goodbook]

I was just responding to the Op title. I dont really bother if someone posts a you tube video just to be contentious. Whatever calvinists say dont bother me.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I was just responding to the Op title. I dont really bother if someone posts a you tube video just to be contentious. Whatever calvinists say dont bother me.

Amein.
Psalm 56:11 in God I trust and am not afraid. What can man do to me?
biblehub.com/psalms/56-11.htm
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In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me. Holman Christian Standard Bible in God I trust; I will not fear. What can man do to me?
Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If ...
biblehub.com/romans/8-31.htm
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If God is for us, who can ever be against us? English Standard Version .... Psalm 118:6. The LORD is for me; I will not fear; What can man do to me? Isaiah 8:10
Hebrews 13:6 So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will ...
biblehub.com/hebrews/13-6.htm
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... confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?” ....
Psalm 118:6 The LORD is with me; I will not be afraid. What can mere ...
biblehub.com/psalms/118-6.htm
Bible Hub
The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me? ..

Hebrews 13:5Amplified Bible (AMP)

5 Let your character [your moral essence, your inner nature] be free from the love of money [shun greed—be financially ethical], being content with what you have; for He has said, “I will never [under any circumstances] desert you [nor give you up nor leave you without support, nor will I in any degree leave you helpless], nor will I forsake or let you down or relax My hold on you [assuredly not]!”

 

[TaylorSexton]

I was just responding to the Op title. I dont really bother if someone posts a you tube video just to be contentious. Whatever calvinists say dont bother me.

I'm still confused. Why, then, did you post here? Nobody here is trying to be contentious.