Calvinist Robots

[&Abel]

I have read it.. Only considered scripture to some. I am not one of those.

well you are entitled to your opinion

no matter how wrong it is

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=&Abel; god did not speak of a resurrection or any other such predictions until after the fall

not that he didn't know it would happen but so that Adam and Eve would act out of innocence

Or more simply, they didn't need to know.

so it would be an act of freewill and not predetermined by gods will

Everything created was determined to be. What you insist on calling a free will was determined to be only as free as you're experiencing it to be.
Your free will wouldn't exist from one moment to the next without God allowing while upholding His creation. Meanwhile, the multitudes of "you" within you, from your inner child to your future ideal self, compete for influence over what to do next, while a giamongous plasma screen & surround sound induce manufactured needs in you thru the power of suggestion from subliminal content to aggressively overt informercials.

(if god had told them there would be death and a resurrection then they would have been even more predisposed to rebel in thinking they were actually fulfilling his will in doing so)

Psychological Behavior theories abound. Atheists like Biological Determinism. Sounds like you believe they had a predisposition to rebel.

I would argue that they were both perfectly content to leave the damn tree alone until some sneaky liar was aloud to interfere. Why do you suppose that happened?

 

[Rick Otto]

You are either a liar or ignorant.[/SIZE]

True or not, you are too, so you have no grounds to hold it against him. Might as well be polite about in any case seein' as how you can't make him disappear. Might as well not make him want to stay just to annoy you.

Or are you impervious in your armor-thick sanctimony?

 

[squint]

You are either a liar or ignorant.

Based on your other posts, I have a pretty good idea what the problem is.

Carry on.

Are you retracting your statement?

You say we must choose God.

The RCC fully accepts that those who DO and WORK righteous acts, righteousness and LOVE WILL have their rewards IN HEAVEN.

Do you understand that the CHOOSING OF GOD in that axiom is IRRELEVANT?

 

[chestertonrules]

True or not, you are too, so you have no grounds to hold it against him. Might as well be polite about in any case seein' as how you can't make him disappear. Might as well not make him want to stay just to annoy you.

Or are you impervious in your armor-thick sanctimony?

I'm indestructible here in the bride of Christ!


I think Squint can handle it.

He flat out misrepresented my views. He can apologize or feel offended.

His call.

 

[chestertonrules]

Are you retracting your statement?

You say we must choose God.

The RCC fully accepts that those who DO and WORK righteous acts, righteousness and LOVE WILL have their rewards IN HEAVEN.

Do you understand that the CHOOSING OF GOD in that axiom is IRRELEVANT?

Salvation is by grace through faith, obedience and perseverence.

Works alone won't save a person.


Clear enough?

 

[squint]

Salvation is by grace through faith, obedience and perseverence.

Works alone won't save a person.


Clear enough?

And I'd suggest that you are outmatched by your groups "official position."

I'll go look it up for you if you'd promise to retract calling me a liar.

 

[chestertonrules]

And I'd suggest that you are outmatched by your groups "official position."

I'll go look it up for you if you'd promise to retract calling me a liar.

If you don't misrepresent the views of others, you won't need to worry about such comments. I assumed your comments were made out of ignorance.


Try harder.


FYI:

1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46

1998 This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God's gratuitous initiative, for he alone can reveal and give himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will, as that of every other creature.47

2002 God's free initiative demands man's free response, for God has created man in his image by conferring on him, along with freedom, the power to know him and love him. The soul only enters freely into the communion of love. God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man. He has placed in man a longing for truth and goodness that only he can satisfy. The promises of "eternal life" respond, beyond all hope, to this desire:

 

[Uphill Battle]

He flat out misrepresented my views. He can apologize or feel offended.

His call.

 

[&Abel]

Or more simply, they didn't need to know.

Everything created was determined to be. What you insist on calling a free will was determined to be only as free as you're experiencing it to be.
Your free will wouldn't exist from one moment to the next without God allowing while upholding His creation. Meanwhile, the multitudes of "you" within you, from your inner child to your future ideal self, compete for influence over what to do next, while a giamongous plasma screen & surround sound induce manufactured needs in you thru the power of suggestion from subliminal content to aggressively overt informercials.

Psychological Behavior theories abound. Atheists like Biological Determinism. Sounds like you believe they had a predisposition to rebel.

I would argue that they were both perfectly content to leave the damn tree alone until some sneaky liar was aloud to interfere. Why do you suppose that happened?

do you believe Lucifer was created with a predisposition to rebel?

I suppose it happened so that they would have to decide

the tree wouldn't have even existed had Lucifer stayed pure

the tree was there so that they would have the option to turn from him...he doesn't want robots

 

[Spell checker]

Or more simply, they didn't need to know.

Everything created was determined to be. What you insist on calling a free will was determined to be only as free as you're experiencing it to be.
Your free will wouldn't exist from one moment to the next without God allowing while upholding His creation. Meanwhile, the multitudes of "you" within you, from your inner child to your future ideal self, compete for influence over what to do next, while a giamongous plasma screen & surround sound induce manufactured needs in you thru the power of suggestion from subliminal content to aggressively overt informercials.

Psychological Behavior theories abound. Atheists like Biological Determinism. Sounds like you believe they had a predisposition to rebel.

I would argue that they were both perfectly content to leave the damn tree alone until some sneaky liar was aloud to interfere. Why do you suppose that happened?

Gimongous. (almost slid past the Spell checker with that one)

 

[&Abel]

god gave them the option to choose right even though he knew they wouldn't

just like he calls all men even though he knows many will reject him

 

[Rick Otto]

How about 1 Timothy?

3 This is good, and pleases God our Saviour,
4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Always a good idea to consider context, as inconvenient as it seems to be for you:

1 Timothy 2:1-8 1 I exhort F1 therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; F2 that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

All who are saved, God wills they should be saved; nor are any saved, but whom He wills they should be saved: hence by all men, whom God would have saved, cannot be meant every individual of mankind, since it is not His will that all men, in this large sense, should be saved, unless there are two contrary wills in God; because there are some who were before ordained by Him unto condemnation, and are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and it is His will concerning some, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned; nor is it fact that all are saved, as they would be, if it was His will they should; for who hath resisted His will?
Rather therefore the sense of usage is all kinds of men, which synchronizes with the use of the phrase in Tim 2:1. Kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, young and old, greater and lesser sinners; all are to be prayed for, even all sorts of men, because God will have all men, in the sense of all sorts of men, saved; and particularly the Gentiles may be who is being designated by Paul, who were often by the Jews referred to as "the world", "the whole world", and "every creature"; whom God would have saved, as well as the Jews, and therefore Heathens, and Heathen magistrates, were to be prayed for as well as Jewish ones.

You shouldn't ignore the context & confine the definition to pimp your profile.

 

[chestertonrules]

Always a good idea to consider context, as inconvenient as it seems to be for you:

1 Timothy 2:1-8 1 I exhort F1 therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; F2 that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

All who are saved, God wills they should be saved; nor are any saved, but whom He wills they should be saved: hence by all men, whom God would have saved, cannot be meant every individual of mankind, since it is not His will that all men, in this large sense, should be saved, unless there are two contrary wills in God; because there are some who were before ordained by Him unto condemnation, and are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and it is His will concerning some, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned; nor is it fact that all are saved, as they would be, if it was His will they should; for who hath resisted His will?
Rather therefore the sense of usage is all kinds of men, which synchronizes with the use of the phrase in Tim 2:1. Kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, young and old, greater and lesser sinners; all are to be prayed for, even all sorts of men, because God will have all men, in the sense of all sorts of men, saved; and particularly the Gentiles may be who is being designated by Paul, who were often by the Jews referred to as "the world", "the whole world", and "every creature"; whom God would have saved, as well as the Jews, and therefore Heathens, and Heathen magistrates, were to be prayed for as well as Jewish ones.

You shouldn't ignore the context & confine the definition to pimp your profile.

The bible is clear.

Your words are a failed attempt to change the meaning of the bible.

It is so sad that you will go to such desperate lengths to prove that God doesn't love every man.


What drives you? It is not scripture, clearly.

 

[JacobHall86]

Abel has his own warped view of scripture and creation and adds in as needed to support his claim. Weak.

 

[&Abel]

what translation is that?

can we all just agree to switch to the NASB? lol

terrible... anyways

1 Timothy 2

A Call to Prayer

1First of all, then, I urge that (A)entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2(B)for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of (C)God our Savior,
4(D)who desires all men to be (E)saved and to (F)come to the knowledge of the truth.



the only way to get around this is to twist it...thats just all there is to it

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=&Abel; do you believe Lucifer was created with a predisposition to rebel?

Perhaps. I remember something like 'he was fly until iniquity was found in him"... I don't know how it got there.
We talk about accidents, but if your an omniscient omnipotent Creator, you don't have accidents.

I suppose it happened so that they would have to decide

You need to see things in a more fundamental perspective; rather than creation existing to serve me, we are part of creation that exists to serve God.

the tree wouldn't have even existed had Lucifer stayed pure

That sounds a little too rad for this ol' school dog.
the tree was there so that they would have the option to turn from him...he doesn't want robots .

Well, He apparently doesn't want gods either, and you have His creatures deciding their own destiny with the spiritualy dead brains they inherited from Adam.

 

[Rick Otto]

1 Timothy 2

1First of all, then, I urge that (A)entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2(B)for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of (C)God our Savior,
4(D)who desires all men to be (E)saved and to (F)come to the knowledge of the truth.



the only way to get around this is to twist it...thats just all there is to it

I don't think your twisting it is going to allow you to get all the way around it. It is too large. Give up & admit all men doesn't mean every individual in this context. It will make you look intelligent.

 

[&Abel]

John 10

34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in (AS)your (AT)Law, '(AU)I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?

 

[&Abel]

I don't think your twisting it is going to allow you to get all the way around it. It is too large. Give up & admit all men doesn't mean every individual in this context. It will make you look intelligent.

do actually believe the crap thats flowing forth from your finger tips?