Calvinist Robots

[Rick Otto]

everyone has sinned. so what is different about those that God chooses for salvation from those He chooses for condemnation?

The difference of importance is that God chooses, not man.

 

[&Abel]

The difference of importance is that God chooses, not man.

for this very purpose I raised him up, so that he would challenge my godly ones with false doctrines so that the good and evil will be made manifest

just kidding lol

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

can you explain that parable for me? I've never fully understood it

I could but it would probably just sound like "babble"

 

[Rick Otto]

inally Posted by Rick Otto

Your overconfidence in your thinking is causing you to get sloppy.
He knows everything AND He gave us the ability to make choices.

He forknew because He predestined the choice we would make for ourselves.

I'm comfortable with that.
AND we will be saved by God's choice, not our own.
​

so then god predetermined Lucifer to choose evil and Adam and Eve to follow his deception

so basically according to your theology, god is the father of lies and the father of sin

No. You're simply making the amateur's mistake of misusing the phrase "father of ", compounding your error in, or rather lack of, comprehension of predestination and will. Happens all the time. I did it myself a couple of times at first.

Joh 8:44 - Show Context Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[&Abel]

inally Posted by Rick Otto

Your overconfidence in your thinking is causing you to get sloppy.
He knows everything AND He gave us the ability to make choices.

He forknew because He predestined the choice we would make for ourselves.

I'm comfortable with that.
AND we will be saved by God's choice, not our own.
​

No. You're simply making the amateur's mistake of misusing the phrase "father of ", compounding your error in, or rather lack of, comprehension of predestination and will. Happens all the time. I did it myself a couple of times at first.

Joh 8:44 - Show Context Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

fancy words with no substance

if our will is what god predetermined then there is no sin...we are functioning in accordance with gods will and he is actually the sinner, not us

 

[&Abel]

2 Esdras

[55] Therefore do not ask any more questions about the multitude of those who perish.
[56] For they also received freedom , but they despised the Most High, and were contemptuous of his law, and forsook his ways.
[57] Moreover they have even trampled upon his righteous ones,
[58] and said in their hearts that there is not God -- though knowing full well that they must die.
[59] For just as the things which I have predicted await you, so the thirst and torment which are prepared await them. For the Most High did not intend that men should be destroyed;
[60] but they themselves who were created have defiled the name of him who made them, and have been ungrateful to him who prepared life for them.
[61] Therefore my judgment is now drawing near

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

[59] For just as the things which I have predicted await you, so the thirst and torment which are prepared await them. For the Most High did not intend that men should be destroyed;

No He didn't intend for mankind to be destroyed, mankind itself determined that.

Genesis 6:13 And Elohim is saying to Noah "an-end of-all-of flesh coming to faces of Me, that the land is full with violence from faces of them and behold Me!, ruining-of-them/07843 shachath the Land". [Exodus 12:33/Revelation 11:18]

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=&Abel;fancy words with no substance

hollow accusation with no guts, just a lotta 'noive'.

if our will is what god predetermined

Technicaly, it isn't,... our destiny is. You realy get sloppy with vocabulary when you shoot from the hip, &Abe.

then there is no sin...we are functioning in accordance with gods will and he is actually the sinner, not us.

If His will is that we became sinners, we are the sinners, not Him.
It serves His purpose regardless of it being inconvenient or scary for you.
After all, He is God & if He decides evil & sin need to exist to fulfill His mission, whattayagonnado? Fahgettaboudit.
Eat yer beans & be grateful.

 

[&Abel]

hollow accusation with no guts, just a lotta 'noive'.


Technicaly, it isn't,... our destiny is. You realy get sloppy with vocabulary when you shoot from the hip, &Abe.


If His will is that we became sinners, we are the sinners, not Him.
It serves His purpose regardless of it being inconvenient or scary for you.
After all, He is God & if He decides evil & sin need to exist to fulfill His mission, whattayagonnado? Fahgettaboudit.
Eat yer beans & be grateful.

don't you understand that if your will is what god willed our will becomes gods will? if gods will was the existence of evil then doing evil is in accordance with gods will

do you not understand what separates us from god is that our will is against his?

 

[&Abel]

you place god in a very schizophrenic light

so he decided to create evil, damn most and save a few

but decided that after he put this into motion he would feel terrible for what was happening to his children and attempt to draw them to him

but not really...just to make himself look good

since he already planned for them to burn

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

you place god in a very schizophrenic light

so he decided to create evil, damn most and save a few

but decided that after he put this into motion he would feel terrible for what was happening to his children and attempt to draw them to him

but not really...just to make himself look good

since he already planned for them to burn

Yeah, doesn't seem very fair does it

Luke 3:17 Of whom the winnowing shovel in His hand and to thru-cleanse the threshing-floor of Him and to be together-leading/gathering the grain into His barn/place, the yet chaff He shall be burning/katakausei <2618> (5692) to fire, unquenched. [Mentioned only in the Gospels of Matt 3:12/Luke 3:17.]

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.

 

[&Abel]

what does make sense is that he decided to make a freewill being which would take full responsibility on their shoulders BECAUSE of the freedom they have been given

but realized in his design that they would soon turn against him, and so he was sad

but rejoice because the goodness from within his image will overcome and become something so good that its worth the original rebellion

and the damned are damned because of the choice which was given...with freedom comes great responsibility and they had every chance to repent and be saved but refused his holy spirit

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

what does make sense is that he decided to make a freewill being which would take full responsibility on their shoulders BECAUSE of the freedom they have been given

but realized in his design that they would soon turn against him, and so he was sad

but rejoice because the goodness from within his image will overcome and become something so good that its worth the original rebellion

and the damned are damned because of the choice which was given...with freedom comes great responsibility and they had every chance to repent and be saved but refused his holy spirit

They are given a few chances to "repent" in Reve 16 untill it is finally "all over"

Revelation 16:11 And they blaspheme the GOD of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them. And not they repent/reform/metenohsan <3340> (5656) out of the works of them.

 

[Rick Otto]

don't you understand that if your will is what god willed our will becomes gods will? if gods will was the existence of evil then doing evil is in accordance with gods will

do you not understand what separates us from god is that our will is against his?

Don't you unnerstan' that our will can't be against His unless He allows it?
When Pikate asked Jesus if He realized he held His life in his hands, Jesus told Pilate that the he had no more power than God allows.
God creates evil not because He is evil but because like the refiner of gold, it can't be done unless he builds a fire.

 

[Rick Otto]

you place god in a very schizophrenic light

so he decided to create evil, damn most and save a few

but decided that after he put this into motion he would feel terrible for what was happening to his children and attempt to draw them to him

but not really...just to make himself look good

since he already planned for them to burn

I doubt He thinks that much like you, but I'm sure He's flattered by your confidence in Him.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

"Calvin Pancakes"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyse-BB-u9o&feature=related

 

[chestertonrules]

Don't you unnerstan' that our will can't be against His unless He allows it?

God's will was and is to create free creatures capable of CHOOSING to love him.


We choose to respond to God's grace, which is what he wants for us, or we reject his grace, which is not what he wants, but what he allows.

He knows what we will choose, so our destiny is predetermined in this sense.

 

[&Abel]

Don't you unnerstan' that our will can't be against His unless He allows it?
When Pikate asked Jesus if He realized he held His life in his hands, Jesus told Pilate that the he had no more power than God allows.
God creates evil not because He is evil but because like the refiner of gold, it can't be done unless he builds a fire.

allows and wills are 2 very different things

this is once again a statement referring to his knowledge of the outcome

and god is shaping our existence(through those who contain his spirit) always has been

hes been guiding us all along, along the path that would lead to the fruit of his tree

I firmly believe that god is taking the absolutely best path he possibly can at all times and saving everyone possible along the way

but even in the rejection of many the good is made even more manifest in his chosen

so everything works together perfectly for the perfect result

and yet god would rather of had it that Adam and Eve didn't sin

they could have attained the final result without sinning

you realize that right?

 

[&Abel]

god did not speak of a resurrection or any other such predictions until after the fall

not that he didn't know it would happen but so that Adam and Eve would act out of innocence

so it would be an act of freewill and not predetermined by gods will(if god had told them there would be death and a resurrection then they would have been even more predisposed to rebel in thinking they were actually fulfilling his will in doing so)

 

[&Abel]

they had the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and they made their choice completely free of gods foreknowledge being presented