Calvinist Robots

[squint]

That's not what the bible or the Catholic Church teaches.

1 Tim 4
9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

That's a novel statement. Were the topic not currently off limits I might actually question your attempt.

From the catechism:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.[337]

Salvation by ignorance would seem a possible preferable methodology to actually hearing the facts and making God in Christ then without effect via personal action(s) as prior noted.

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

I was just trying to address your statement about calling men evil but it is off topic for this thread and you continue to throw in the little insulting jabs of "ROBOTIC" that do nothing for civil discussion, so I will just leave it alone.

aka a unilateral declaration of off topic rather than engagement.

 

[MamaZ]

All men have been made alive in Christ. Do you deny this?

absolutley deny this. If all men have been made alive in Christ then sin would be at a minimum and not at a maximum and growing. None would hate Christians if all were made alive in Christ. Prayer would be considered a natural thing to do and any event whether at you assembly or at school. Out of the hearts of men come evil thoughts and actions.. This is why one MUST be born again or regenerated given a heart of flesh. Circumcision of the heart, Water cannot circumcise a heart. Only the very Spirit of God can.

 

[chestertonrules]

absolutley deny this. If all men have been made alive in Christ then sin would be at a minimum and not at a maximum and growing. None would hate Christians if all were made alive in Christ. Prayer would be considered a natural thing to do and any event whether at you assembly or at school. Out of the hearts of men come evil thoughts and actions.. This is why one MUST be born again or regenerated given a heart of flesh. Circumcision of the heart, Water cannot circumcise a heart. Only the very Spirit of God can.

Being alive in Christ merely makes it possible for us to seek God. God's grace calls to all men through the Holy Spirit, who convicts us of sin.

You are arguing with the bible.

Since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

 

[MamaZ]

I guess that's why such as little children make up the kingdom of heaven. Because they were not born with a nature for/toward God?

where does it say that children were born with a nature towards GOD? No where. Men and women are not born with a nature towards God but towards sin. This is why we don't have to train our children to sin. It is natural for them. We are to have the faith of little children. Most little children do not need to see to believe. They just do. If you tell a child eww ouch that is hot do not touch they will then in return when you go to touch what you have told them not to that it is hot. Not because they have touched it and gotten burned but because you have told them it was hot. Simple child like Faith is what we are to have in Christ.

 

[Evergreen48]

absolutley deny this. If all men have been made alive in Christ then sin would be at a minimum and not at a maximum and growing. None would hate Christians if all were made alive in Christ. Prayer would be considered a natural thing to do and any event whether at you assembly or at school. Out of the hearts of men come evil thoughts and actions.. This is why one MUST be born again or regenerated given a heart of flesh. Circumcision of the heart, Water cannot circumcise a heart. Only the very Spirit of God can.

Ever hear of 'quenching the spirit'? MamaZ

 

[Evergreen48]

where does it say that children were born with a nature towards GOD? No where. Men and women are not born with a nature towards God but towards sin. This is why we don't have to train our children to sin. It is natural for them. We are to have the faith of little children. Most little children do not need to see to believe. They just do. If you tell a child eww ouch that is hot do not touch they will then in return when you go to touch what you have told them not to that it is hot. Not because they have touched it and gotten burned but because you have told them it was hot. Simple child like Faith is what we are to have in Christ.

Sorry, Have to go for now. I will catch you later on this.

 

[A New Dawn]

Being alive in Christ merely makes it possible for us to seek God. God's grace calls to all men through the Holy Spirit, who convicts us of sin.

You are arguing with the bible.

Since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

This has already been addressed in the other thread. http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=50721616&postcount=106

We don't need to argue about a definition for love. It is an english word! If you want to redefine it, then give me a definition. Until then, let's use this:

love A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.

There are seven different words meaning love used in the Bible, and they each have a different meaning. The word 'agape' is the word Christ used regarding the love God has for us, and I don't necessarily think it can be defined in the manner above.

Do you deny that Jesus restored our relationship with God? We are back to the status of Adam and Eve. We now have the ability to choose or reject God' grace.

Jesus reunited us with God. Now we can pick up our cross and follow or reject God's grace.

Jesus restored the ability to have a relationship with God, but we aren't back to the status of Adam and Eve precisely because we have to pick up our cross and follow Him. That means we are still bound by a fallen world. Adam and Eve were not (till they fell). As long as we live in a fallen world, we will not see things clearly, and our main characteristic, every one if us, is to take our will, our definition of things, and substitute it for God's, even if we don't think we are, because we are still fallen.

I do believe that we have the ability to choose to reject God's grace. I just don't think anyone who has been regenerated will.

I know I keep posting some of the same verses, buy you keep ignoring them.

Please tell me why you don't believe these verses:

Since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

I do believe those verses, but I don't believe what you believe about those verses because 'all' doesn't always mean all. When you take away the context, sure, it can look like it means everyone, but the context usually tells us who is being addressed in the passage, and most of the time, all means people from all nations or all believers. Very rarely does it mean every single person that ever lived on the face of the earth.

Strong's G3956 - pas πᾶς

Part of Speech-adjective

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) individually
....a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
....a) some of all types


Same with 'world'.

Strong's G2889 - kosmos κόσμος

Part of Speech-masculine noun

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
3) the world, the universe
4) the circle of the earth, the earth
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
....a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
....a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
....b) of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19

 

[chestertonrules]

I do believe those verses, but I don't believe what you believe about those verses because 'all' doesn't always mean all. When you take away the context, sure, it can look like it means everyone, but the context usually tells us who is being addressed in the passage, and most of the time, all means people from all nations or all believers. Very rarely does it mean every single person that ever lived on the face of the earth.

Do you believe ALL means something different when it is used twice in the same sentence?

 

[A New Dawn]

Do you believe ALL means something different when it is used twice in the same sentence?

It depends on the context and what we know to be true. It can mean two different things, since both definitions are possible.

 

[chestertonrules]

It depends on the context and what we know to be true. It can mean two different things, since both definitions are possible.

What we know to be true?

What you really mean is, if it doesn't fit my dogma, then I change the meaning of the words.

Since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22


There is absolutely NO WAY that the word all could mean something different in this sentence. The whole point of the sentence is to equate the two.

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

Same thing. Paul draws attention to his point with the words that are emboldened.

All means EXACTLY the same group of people in both cases.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

R2D2 was a Calvinist robot. C3PO wasn't.

The Lost in Space robot was Calvinist. Dr. Zachary Smith wasn't.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

R2D2 was a Calvinist robot. C3PO wasn't.

The Lost in Space robot was Calvinist. Dr. Zachary Smith wasn't.

What about Vincent/O'BOB and Maximillian and his robots in the "Black Hole"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ySBeCV_zM

 

[A New Dawn]

What we know to be true?

What you really mean is, if it doesn't fit my dogma, then I change the meaning of the words.

Since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22


There is absolutely NO WAY that the word all could mean something different in this sentence. The whole point of the sentence is to equate the two.

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

Same thing. Paul draws attention to his point with the words that are emboldened.

All means EXACTLY the same group of people in both cases.

And I posted Strong's that says differently.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

R2D2 was a Calvinist robot. C3PO wasn't.

The Lost in Space robot was Calvinist. Dr. Zachary Smith wasn't.

Wasn't Zachary atheist?

 

[ArcticFox]

What we know to be true?

What you really mean is, if it doesn't fit my dogma, then I change the meaning of the words.

Since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22


There is absolutely NO WAY that the word all could mean something different in this sentence. The whole point of the sentence is to equate the two.

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

Same thing. Paul draws attention to his point with the words that are emboldened.

All means EXACTLY the same group of people in both cases.

Were it not for the rest of Scripture to prove this wrong (not all are justified or saved), I'd be inclined to believe you.

Unfortunately for your hermeneutics in this case, the remaining verses of the Bible prove that position incorrect... not all are saved, justified, or made alive in Christ. That is a fact we know well.

Scripture with Scripture... Interpret Scripture through the lens of Scripture. It sounds like circular logic, and to an extent it is, but it works and works very well.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

What about Vincent/O'BOB and Maximillian and his robots in the "Black Hole"

Sure 'nough, they are. But they're the kind that hold to limited armament.

 

[jckstraw72]

i havent been reading this whole thread -- are you saying that the fact that not all are saved proves TULIP?

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Wasn't Zachary atheist?

He was a fictional atheist. Which means God didn't believe Zachary existed either.

 

[PETE_]

i havent been reading this whole thread -- are you saying that the fact that not all are saved proves TULIP?

It just proves that "all" does not mean each and every one.