Calvinist Baptist Talk

[BT]

God has chosen the weak in this world to be strong in faith. The passage superflously supports my position that God chooses people for his glory.

Also, God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble (Prov. 3.34, James 4.6?, 1 Peter 5.5).

Again. Nothing to do with Salvation.

 

[JM]

Perseverance of the Saints is not OSAS.

Listen, I wish calvinism was true (the doctrine of Grace) it would make my job a lot easier. Show me that calvinsim is true and I'll be a Calvinist.

Use Ephesians 1 and show me unconditional election. I have not said that I agree with ANY points of calvinsim.. I DO NOT AGREE WITH TOTAL DEPRAVITY/TOTAL INABILIITY hopefully that makes it clear.

So proceed to Ephesians 1.

BT, what's your job? To save sinners? That's God's work from start to finish, your job as is mine is to obey the command to share the Gospel...that's it.

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Lu 19:10 "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." All are lost without Christ, yet the Bible tells us that the Son of man has come to seek that which was lost. If God be true and everyman a lier then Jesus came to seek a certain people.

Mt 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Who are Jesus's people? (Here we go, and be careful of picking just the jew for this passage.)

Joh 10:3 "To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out." Who are the sheep? Again, does world mean world in every instance? BT, I believe (but could be wrong) that you wrote yes, world means world in every instance...

1Jo 5:19 "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." Does the world here include the church? Hummmm.

 

[BT]

BT, what's your job? To save sinners? That's God's work from start to finish, your job as is mine is to obey the command to share the Gospel...that's it.

My friend talk to a hyper-calvinist dispensationalist, and they will tell you that the great commision is not for us, and that we do not need to witness, nor reach the lost. God will do it on his own.

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Lu 19:10 "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." All are lost without Christ, yet the Bible tells us that the Son of man has come to seek that which was lost. If God be true and everyman a lier then Jesus came to seek a certain people.

You need to do some studying outside of "grace" and understand dispensationalism and hermeneutics. Your exegesis is bad, and I'm not saying this to start an argument or say that I'm better than you. I'm just giving some advice. Study hermeneutics before you attempt to exegete. Your position is always one in which I spend time showing you the error of your interpretation, to which you simply move on to the next verse. I'm only hoping that you will pick up some reading material on the subject rather than parrot what you read in certain books. I would recommend to you "Bible Explorers Guide" by John Philips as a good start to hermeneutics.

Mt 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Who are Jesus's people? (Here we go, and be careful of picking just the jew for this passage.)

My friend again, it is you who needs to be careful. Look to the original prophecy, it's context and gain understanding.

Joh 10:3 "To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out." Who are the sheep? Again, does world mean world in every instance? BT, I believe (but could be wrong) that you wrote yes, world means world in every instance...

I don't recall ever saying that... But again go back to the passage, get some dispensational reading. Look at who He was talking to and about. Study the passage in it's entirety.

1Jo 5:19 "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." Does the world here include the church? Hummmm.

I'm really trying to avoid making you look bad... but you aren't making it easy for me. Take a break, calm down and come back even if it takes a few days.

 

[OracleX]

So its pretty nice weather we have going today isn't it?

How about those Blue Jays ... they finally won a game!

 

[@@Paul@@]

So its pretty nice weather we have going today isn't it?

How about those Blue Jays ... they finally won a game!

LOL... those aren't pillows!!!

 

[RED that's ME]

So its pretty nice weather we have going today isn't it?

How about those Blue Jays ... they finally won a game!

OracleX we have nice weather here all day. Are the Blue Jays your favorite team?

 

[OracleX]

They use to be until they started to lose almost every game ... think they are like 20 games below 500 or something like that.

 

[RED that's ME]

That's not good for the Blue Jays hopefully their game will get turned around.

 

[theseed]

Again. Nothing to do with Salvation.

Faith has nothing to do with salvation? ?

Grace and humility have nothing to do with salvation?

 

[BT]

Faith has nothing to do with salvation? ?

Grace and humility have nothing to do with salvation?

I'm talking about 1 Cor. 1:27 which you are quoting... is not a teaching on the doctrine of salvation. The verse isn't talking about salvation. Grace has everything to do with salvation (God's grace that is). I wonder how you believe that humility can have anything to do with salvation if salvation is forced upon a man by God (irresistable drawing...).

 

[BT]

So its pretty nice weather we have going today isn't it?

How about those Blue Jays ... they finally won a game!

Ack! If you guys want to side-track me you gots to talk about HOCKEY!

 

[OracleX]

Ack! If you guys want to side-track me you gots to talk about HOCKEY!

Hockey? What hockey? There won't be a hockey season this year. Those poor hockey guys need more money in order to play. I need to find the "Sponsor a NHL player" thread. Just about busted my gut.

 

[BT]

Hockey? What hockey? There won't be a hockey season this year. Those poor hockey guys need more money in order to play. I need to find the "Sponsor a NHL player" thread. Just about busted my gut.

LOL! One guy on the radio the other day said, "If a million dollars a year isn't enough money for you to play a game (that you supposedly love), go get another job." Like see what Pizza Hut is gonna pay you!

 

[JM]

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On another note, anyone listen to www.aomin.org a few days ago, the program about John 6? If you haven't take a listen.

SP

 

[BT]

It's a touchy subject

 

[theseed]

1 Corinthians. 1.18-2.5 is about the gospel message, and therefore salvation.

 

[BT]

1 Corinthians. 1.18-2.5 is about the gospel message, and therefore salvation.

The first verses in the chapter deal with issues in the Corinthian Church. He talks about divisions in the church there, issues over preference of a baptizer. At v.17 he ends with his purpose as not of baptising but of preaching the gospel, not with wisdom (else the cross is of no effect)


1 Corinthians 1:18-25 Now he begins a comparison between what the world thinks and what is true, what the world values and what God values

v. 18
The message of the cross is foolishness. What's the message? That Christ came and was sacrificed for the sins of men. This is foolish (for one reason) because it teaches God doing something for man and not man doing something for God, which was against the pagan belief system.

v.19
Supports the former verse in that God will destroy (is beyond in wisdom) what men consider wisdom. The message of the cross adds nothing beneficial to "mans" wisdom "... will bring nothing to the understanding of the prudent."

v.20
Where are those who men think are wise? The Scribes (studiers of the Law), the disputer (Greek philosophers). Hasn't God made all things that these teach foolishness?

v.21
The wisdom of God (which surpasses the wisdom of man, still talking about the message of the cross) was such that the wisdom of man could not comprehend Him. But God through preaching (which is considered foolish) was pleased to save them that are chosen? No, that "believe".

v.22
What do those of this world want? The Jews a sign, the Greeks wisdom (philosophy).

v.23
Christ is a stumbling block to the Jews (because they did not understand that He should suffer..etc), and to the Greeks it is foolishness (that He should die, it does not line up with the philosophy of their gods, or their human logic).

v.24
But to all true Christians Christ is known as the power of God and the wisdom of God.

v.25
Why? Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men (this is a play on words since there is no foolishness in God, it's a matter of perception versus truth).

v.26
If you look around you'll see that there aren't many of the worlds wise (Scribes, philosophers) that are Christians.

v.27
God in his wisdom has used the foolish (according to the world) to "put to shame" those who the world considers wise (Scribes, Philosophers and the like). Same with the might of this world and the perceived weak of this world.

There is a string that flows through this whole passage. He is not teaching on salvation here, he is teaching on the wisdom of man versus the wisdom of God. There is no Gospel presentation here...

 

[OracleX]

*** Mod Hat On ***
Ok lets try to keep the emotions and mud slinging down. Please lets not bicker amoungst ourselves. If one can not disagree with another without doing this, then please don't say anything.
*** Mod Hat Off ***

 

[JM]

 

[theseed]

BT, your censuring the bible.


1 Corinthians 1
21 For since in the wisdom of God (1) the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, (2) God was well-pleased through the (3) foolishness of the message preached to (4) save those who believe.
22 For indeed (5) Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom;
23 but we preach [1] (6) Christ crucified, (7) to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles (8) foolishness,


Emphasis mine.