Calvinism vs arminism

[Bluelion]

You're missing my point. Why would someone believe something they think is false? The warnings do them no good. They don't believe them.

ahhh but I am speaking of a different breed, you my friend are not understanding. I am not speaking of those who do not believe, but those that see God is good and still reject him. judas new Jesus is the son of God however He rejected him, He New he was Good and from Heaven, He saw His fruit, the miracles, He Knew yes there is a God, and Jesus is Him. Yet He rejected him. No different than demons who know there is a God yet reject Him.

Hebrew 6

4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

People use this for an argument against OSAS, However says shared the holy spirit not had. It speaks of seeing the truth and knowing that truth rejecting it. It speaks to an unsaved person who God can call so Great to reveal himself to that person. Like He did with judas and yet like judas that person can reject him even still.

 

[Hammster]

ahhh but I am speaking of a different breed, you my friend are not understanding. I am not speaking of those who do not believe, but those that see God is good and still reject him. judas new Jesus is the son of God however He rejected him, He New he was Good and from Heaven, He saw His fruit, the miracles, He Knew yes there is a God, and Jesus is Him. Yet He rejected him. No different than demons who know there is a God yet reject Him.

Hebrew 6

4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

People use this for an argument against OSAS, However says shared the holy spirit not had. It speaks of seeing the truth and knowing that truth rejecting it. It speaks to an unsaved person who God can call so Great to reveal himself to that person. Like He did with judas and yet like judas that person can reject him even still.

I see. You are having a different conversation about a different topic altogether. I guess there's not much I can do about that. But let me know if you want to contribute this one.

 

[Bluelion]

I see. You are having a different conversation about a different topic altogether. I guess there's not much I can do about that. But let me know if you want to contribute this one.

It is the same topic as people have free will, just a different group of people.

 

[Hammster]

It is the same topic as people have free will, just a different group of people.

You've ignored what I've said, though.

 

[th1bill]

I'm still not sure how that counters my position.

And, honestly, i am at a complete lose to help you to see because your built in system of evaluation is missing an element i am unable to help you with, then.

 

[Hammster]

And, honestly, i am at a complete lose to help you to see because your built in system of evaluation is missing an element i am unable to help you with, then.

All you've said is the circumstances around your salvation. You have even said what you think I believe and how your conversion counters that.

 

[Bluelion]

You've ignored what I've said, though.

what have you said? You asked me questions and never made a point.

 

[Hammster]

what have you said? You asked me questions and never made a point.

You ignored the questions. The point was there.

 

[Bluelion]

You ignored the questions. The point was there.

How about you tell the truth i answer your questions. and no no point was made by you.

You refuse to state your position which is you do not believe in free will, you are a Calvinist. I was hoping you would make a point to my point i made about free will. However you won't.

I think your playing a game in this thread and others so I am done playing, Have a nice day.

 

[Hammster]

How about you tell the truth i answer your questions. and no no point was made by you.

You refuse to state your position which is you do not believe in free will, you are a Calvinist. I was hoping you would make a point to my point i made about free will. However you won't.

I think your playing a game in this thread and others so I am done playing, Have a nice day.

Here's a point. A person won't believe something they think is false. So something must happen to them to believe it. They just can't choose freely to believe something.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed for review.

 

[LilLamb219]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has gone through a clean up to remove posts that were flaming, responded to flames or were off topic...Thread is now open again.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[DeaconDean]

You see, this is the very reason why I didn't post here earlier.

Been through way too many of these types of debates, fights, discussions in the Soteriology area.

If it wasn't for Arminus' teaching on "foreknowledge" I could very well be Arminian.

And for what its worth, I disagree with Calvin on his stance on baptism.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Bluelion]

Here's a point. A person won't believe something they think is false. So something must happen to them to believe it. They just can't choose freely to believe something.

A person when presented with evidence can choose to except that evidence or reject it. It does not change that a person can still reject what he or she has seen or been shown.

God said many are called but few are chosen. That points to many hear the word but few except it.

You ever heard the longest river in Egypt is denial. This saying point to a persons will full act to denial something which has very clearly been shown. A person can willfully reject the truth even if they know it is the truth, its called rebellion.

 

[BBAS 64]

A person when presented with evidence can choose to except that evidence or reject it. It does not change that a person can still reject what he or she has seen or been shown.

God said many are called but few are chosen. That points to many hear the word but few except it.

GoodDay, Bluelion

The many are called but few are chosen is with in the Jewish context of a wedding called by the king. It has nothing at all with hearing, but has to do with king proving the wedding close to the few that he chooses to do so.... Based on his own right to do so.

Try to sneak in with out the clothing that was provided by the King, and get your self killed.

Only those that are "of" God hear John 8 there is your hearing context not the verse you misquoted.

To them that are perishing the Gospel is foolishness, it is a stumbling block... what happens to change that?

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

You see, this is the very reason why I didn't post here earlier.

Been through way too many of these types of debates, fights, discussions in the Soteriology area.

If it wasn't for Arminus' teaching on "foreknowledge" I could very well be Arminian.

And for what its worth, I disagree with Calvin on his stance on baptism.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Good Day, Dean

For as great as Calvin was, he never claimed to be infallible.


In Him,

Bill

 

[Bluelion]

GoodDay, Bluelion

The many are called but few are chosen is with in the Jewish context of a wedding called by the king. It has nothing at all with hearing, but has to do with king proving the wedding close to the few that he chooses to do so.... Based on his own right to do so.

Try to sneak in with out the clothing that was provided by the King, and get your self killed.

Only those that are "of" God hear John 8 there is your hearing context not the verse you misquoted.

To them that are perishing the Gospel is foolishness, it is a stumbling block... what happens to change that?

In Him,

Bill

I disagree, The man who showed up to the wedding but did not have the right clothes was asked why not and he did not have an answer, he was not trying to"sneak in" it speak of those who go to church every day hear the word day in and day out but never accept Christ so they have no robes from the Blood of Christ. The call is hearing the word, the chosen is accepting Christ.

 

[Skala]

A person when presented with evidence can choose to except that evidence or reject it.

But the Bible teaches apart from regeneration, everyone "hates" the evidence that is Jesus and the gospel.

Simply seeing the evidence is not good enough. People are innately hostile to Christ, by fallen nature.

Synergism and Arminianism of all forms water down the truly sinful nature of man. They don't think God's powerful changing, converting grace is necessary at all. They act like everyone is just neutral towards God,when in fact the bible tells us that man is hostile to God and disinclined away from God due to his enslavement to his fallen, sinful nature.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

The many are called but few are chosen is with in the Jewish context of a wedding called by the king. It has nothing at all with hearing, but has to do with king proving the wedding close to the few that he chooses to do so.... Based on his own right to do so.

Try to sneak in with out the clothing that was provided by the King, and get your self killed.

I know you think you have the parable figured out, but you're pretty far off base.

It is not because the invited guests could not come to the wedding feast, but that they would not come.

Luke 13, NASB
34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!"
​

The wedding invitation is extended to anyone and everyone, total strangers, both good and bad. This refers to the gospel being taken to the Gentiles. This portion of the parable is a foreshadowing of the Jews’ rejection of the gospel in Acts 13. Paul and Barnabas were in Pisidian Antioch, where the Jewish leaders strongly opposed them. The apostle’s words echo the king’s estimation that those invited to the wedding “did not deserve to come.”

Paul said, “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles” (Acts 13:46). The gospel message, Jesus taught, would be made available to everyone.

The matter of the wedding garment is instructive. It would be a gross insult to the king to refuse to wear the garment provided to the guests. The man who was caught wearing his old clothing learned what an offense it was as he was removed from the celebration. He was not killed. He was chastised, and had no heavenly reward because he failed to do anything with the gifts God gave him on Earth, and as a result was cast into "the outer darkness" of heaven, just as the slave who buried the talent so that it came to nothing more than what it already was (Matthew 25:10).

 

[Bluelion]

But the Bible teaches apart from regeneration, everyone "hates" the evidence that is Jesus and the gospel.

Simply seeing the evidence is not good enough. People are innately hostile to Christ, by fallen nature.

Synergism and Arminianism of all forms water down the truly sinful nature of man. They don't think God's powerful changing, converting grace is necessary at all. They act like everyone is just neutral towards God,when in fact the bible tells us that man is hostile to God and disinclined away from God due to his enslavement to his fallen, sinful nature.

doesn't change a person can chose, there is a choice. It is clear God gave Adam and Eve a choice, they were not hostel to God because of a fallen nature, they had no fallen nature. They had a choice to obey God or not, just like every Human has a choice to obey or not.

How is it fair to punish some one who had no choice and simple did what they were program for, A person Goes to hell because of the choices they make, they are punished for rejecting God because they had the choice to accept or reject.