Calvinism Refuted

[&Abel]

Yes God has endured those vessels who are prepared for wrath

its not God's will for them to be vessels of wrath but it is the end result which God already knows and has prepared a place for them

do you know why he endures them? in part because they cause problems for His elect but also because of the pain inflicted on themselves

God is feeling our pain with us...every man, woman and child on this planet

 

[&Abel]

remember that Gods primary will is for that vessel who is destined for wrath to have the ability to freely choose

so this is not contrary to His primary goal and purpose

and His purpose is to perfect us in the midst of rebellion

God being perfection was able to turn even imperfection into perfection

 

[&Abel]

truly a testament to how amazing he really is

 

[nobdysfool]

highlighting is enough

if you can't get it from a highlight and simple explanation expounding is nothing but a waste of time

Sounds more like an excuse to me. An excuse for why you haven't expounded. Perhaps because you cannot?

 

[the particular baptist]

remember that Gods primary will is for that vessel who is destined for wrath to have the ability to freely choose

You are missing the point.

vessels of wrath prepared for destruction in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy

They were vessels prepared beforehand for destruction.

Why ?

In order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy

 

[&Abel]

they are a part of the perfect plan and justice of God

all disobedience of God becomes an example to those who believe

this is just a part of the natural balance of justice

and he has prepared them for destruction because that is their destiny

no 2 ways about it

 

[&Abel]

just look at the world right now

its in chaos and getting worse everyday

to us believers this reaffirms our faith and gives us a reason to strive for good

and those who refuse to see it continue to follow the very things that have caused them these problems

 

[&Abel]

Sounds more like an excuse to me. An excuse for why you haven't expounded. Perhaps because you cannot?

truth be told I've done a lot of expounding in this thread

but it is rather pointless I must admit

 

[the particular baptist]

they are a part of the perfect plan and justice of God

all disobedience of God becomes an example to those who believe

this is just a part of the natural balance of justice

and he has prepared them for destruction because that is their destiny

no 2 ways about it

Youre still missing the point. Youre still making everything dependent on man. God reacts to men, you say.


This says everything is subject to God regardless of what men do. He has mercy on some, His choice, and He pours wrath on others, His choice.

vessels of wrath prepared for destruction in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy

 

[&Abel]

its not dependent on man

its dependent on God who wills

his plan will be completed as he planned and there is nothing you can do to change that

and if you try to change that you are simply following lies of the deceiver and were a vessel prepared for wrath in that God already knew you would attempt to change it

God reach's out...he puts us on the path we need to come to repentance, he gives us His beautiful Spirit and word to figure things out

all we have to do is take hold of all he has given us

thats it

thats not man based

 

[the particular baptist]

its not dependent on man

its dependent on God who wills

his plan will be completed as he planned and there is nothing you can do to change that

and if you try to change that you are simply following lies of the deceiver and were a vessel prepared for wrath in that God already knew you would attempt to change it

God reach's out...he puts us on the path we need to come to repentance, he gives us His beautiful Spirit and word to figure things out

all we have to do is take hold of all he has given us

thats it

thats not man based

Yes, the Calvinist says that all the vessels prepared for mercy will come to Him. His sheep hear His voice when He calls, ie, the Gospel call. The vessels prepared for wrath will not come because they were prepared for wrath.

We do not know who the elect are, but we are told to go out in all the world and make disciples, so we pray with Spurgeon;

Oh, my brothers and sisters in Christ, if sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our bodies; and if they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees, imploring them to stay, and not madly to destroy themselves. If hell must be filled, at least let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go there unwarned and unprayed for.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

It is easy to refute calvinism, just study and believe the New Testament, and you could in no way believe in calvinism, it is anti biblical. (not simply extra biblical, but anti biblical)

 

[&Abel]

but the freewiller says God did not purposely design them to be vessels of wrath, but they have become a part of His overall plan

since God is outside of time we really can't say what came first

its not possible for us to contemplate how exactly he planned everything

I just know God wants us all to come to Him because his Spirit continuously reaffirms this within myself

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

It is easy to refute calvinism, just study and believe the New Testament, and you could in no way believe in calvinism, it is anti biblical. (not simply extra biblical, but anti biblical)

lol. Hey guys, after 1700 posts, really, this is all it takes!

What do you think Calvinists say about anti-pelagians? The same thing. That's the whole argument... which one does scripture support?

You simply stating it as a matter of fact does absolutely nothing other than show your blind/irrational faith in a false system of theology.

 

[drstevej]

but the freewiller says God did not purposely design them to be vessels of wrath, but they have become a part of His overall plan

since God is outside of time we really can't say what came first

its not possible for us to contemplate how exactly he planned everything

I just know God wants us all to come to Him because his Spirit continuously reaffirms this within myself

No need for a Bible then, YOU are the oracle.

 

[drstevej]

It is easy to refute calvinism, just study and believe the New Testament, and you could in no way believe in calvinism, it is anti biblical. (not simply extra biblical, but anti biblical)

• just study -- CHECK DONE THAT
• and believe the New Testament -- CHECK DONE THAT

And I am still a Calvinist.

I think is is easier to pronounce the death of Calvinism than to hop in the ring and wrestle it to the ground.

 

[&Abel]

No need for a Bible then, YOU are the oracle.

lol

 

[nhisname]

If every one is predestinated why did Jesus command his apostles to go into the world and preach the Gospel to every creature? Mark 16:15. And then Jesus said in verse 16, "He that believes in me will be saved, and he that does not believe will be damned."

If everyone is predestinated why preach the Gospel at all?

The preaching of the gospel is what draws men to Christ. Jesus said, "When I am lifted up (up on the cross) I will draw all men to myself." When the Gospel is preached the Holy Spirit is there to convict men of their need for Christ. This is how the 5000 were converted on the day of Pentecost. Peter preached the Gospel. Peter did not say that this Gospel is only for the elect. No, he said, "It shall come to pass that WHOSOEVER shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved," Acts 2:21.

The Gospel refutes Calvinism. In the Gospel God has perfected all of humanity and has taken it to heaven. The Gospel is God's great free gift to humanity, Romans 5:18. We have been MADE complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. This Gospel is yours only when by faith you make it yours. If you don't accept it you are still in your sins.

John 1:7, The same came for a witness, of the light, thay ALL MEN through him might believe.

John 3:16, For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 22:15, For you shall be witnesses unto ALL MEN of what you have seen and heard.

Romans 5:12, Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin: and so death passed upon ALL MEN, for that all have sinned.

Romans 5:18, Therefore by the offense of one (Adam) judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life.

Romans 8:32, He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up FOR US ALL, how shall he not give us all things.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15, For the love of God constraines us; because we thus judge, that if one died FOR ALL, then we are ALL dead. And he that died FOR ALL, which live should not live unto themselves.

2 Corinthians 5;19, God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD unto himself.

2 Corinthians 9:13, While by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection into the gospel of christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto ALL MEN.

Ephesians 3;9, And to make ALL MEN see what is the fellowship of the mystery from which from the beginning of the world was hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:4, Who will have ALL MEN to be saved and to come into the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:5-6, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ who gave himself a ransom FOR ALL.

1 Timothy 4:10, For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the savior of ALL MEN.

Titus 2:11, For the grace of God that brings salvation to ALL MEN.

Hebrews 2:9, But we see Jesus who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN.

Hebrews 10:10, But that we will have been sanctified through the offering of one body of Jesus Christ once FOR ALL.

James 1:15, If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to ALL MEN liberally.

1 John 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.

1 John 4:14, And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the savior of the WHOLE WORLD.

1 John 5:4, For whatsoever (whosoever) is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world OUR FAITH.

2 Peter 3:9, The Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that ALL should come to repentance.

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If the whole world is saved then what was the point of Jesus' death and sacrifice on the cross if not for only those who would come to him and believe his teachings? People have to hear the gospel before they can be convicted of their sin and repent. It's our repentence and faith in him that saves us. Have you ever wondered why some people are convicted and some not after they hear the same message? The Potter has special purposes for his clay. Read Romans 9:19-25.
All through history God has chosen specific people for his purpose, why I don't know . Abraham, moses, Jacob, king David, Daniel etc. everyone one was chosen for a special purpose.
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father draws him., and I will raise him up on that last day.
Eph. 1:4
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight . In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.
Rev.17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

[&Abel]

they were chosen because God knew they would achieve the results he wanted

within the world and within their hearts

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

lol

I don't find this funny; charismatics and those who deny that special revelation is closed clearly deny sola scriptura. Your saying you know something simply "because his Spirit continuously reaffirms this within myself" and not because Scripture says so, coupled with the fact that you constantly quote from the pseudepigrapha shows your denial of reformation principles, specifically, the supreme authority of the Scriptures.