Calvinism, explained.

[EmSw]

Yu know, I have wondered the same thing. If God does have a truly secret will, just how would Calvin or anyone know it was even there?

You won't get a reply from 'Calvinists' on this.

I challenge any 'Calvinists' to reveal God's secret will, and let's see if it comes to pass.

If you don't want to take on this challenge, please show us how Calvin and the writers of the WCF knew God's secret will.

 

[nobdysfool]

Go right on believing in a weak powerless God who is controlled by man, I will believe in God Almighty, who controls the affairs of men, does as seems right to HIM, and does not ask for man's input.

The sooner you realize that its not about you at all, but only about Him, the better off you'll be

 

[nobdysfool]

(Deu 29:29) "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

 

[EmSw]

Go right on believing in a weak powerless God who is controlled by man, I will believe in God Almighty, who controls the affairs of men, does as seems right to HIM, and does not ask for man's input.

The sooner you realize that its not about you at all, but only about Him, the better off you'll be

You didn't address my point (as usual). What power does God's predestination have, if it all depends upon man's choices?

 

[EmSw]

(Deu 29:29) "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Maybe the writers of the WCF should have read and understood this passage.

 

[nobdysfool]

You didn't address my point (as usual). What power does God's predestination have, if it all depends upon man's choices?

Actually I addressed what your description leads to: a god who is totally dependent on man.

That ain't the God of the Bible

 

[nobdysfool]

Maybe the writers of the WCF should have read and understood this passage.

Oh really? And I suppose you do?

You claimed that no one would answer, and I answered with Scripture that plainly states that God has secret things.

 

[Hoghead1]

You're avoiding the question.

Well, gimme me a break, will you please? I'm not sure what you are asking. I've guessed at what you may be asking and given two answers already. What more do you want? Or could you be a bit clearer?

 

[EmSw]

Oh really? And I suppose you do?

You claimed that no one would answer, and I answered with Scripture that plainly states that God has secret things.

Chapter III Of God's Eternal Decree

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace.

How did these men know the 'secret counsel' of God's will? You just showed us that the secret things of God belong to Him and not men. Did these men just make this stuff up? Is this where you place your faith?

 

[EmSw]

And what if that turns out to be exactly the way it is?

Then faith is only a guessing game.

 

[nobdysfool]

Well, gimme me a break, will you please? I'm not sure what you are asking. I've guessed at what you may be asking and given two answers already. What more do you want? Or could you be a bit clearer?

In post 2115, I quoted your post, and then asked a question about it. Nothing ambiguous at all.

 

[nobdysfool]

Chapter III Of God's Eternal Decree

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace.

How did these men know the 'secret counsel' of God's will? You just showed us that the secret things of God belong to Him and not men. Did these men just make this stuff up? Is this where you place your faith?

I don't see where they said they knew what that secret counsel is (that's your invention), they just said what Scripture says, that there is one.

I think the real issue here is that they postulate a God who is much more in control that you are comfortable with.

 

[nobdysfool]

Then faith is only a guessing game.

For you, maybe it is. For me, no guessing at all.

 

[Rick Otto]

His foreknowledge is simply A result from His "foreplan".
Unless of course, He just "closed His eyes" and made a wish.

 

[EmSw]

I don't see where they said they knew what that secret counsel is (that's your invention), they just said what Scripture says, that there is one.

I think the real issue here is that they postulate a God who is much more in control that you are comfortable with.

I didn't expect you to see it. If they didn't know God's secret counsel, how did they know God 'has chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace, ACCORDING TO HIS SECRET COUNSEL?

If God is in control as you say, then why can't He make you believe and act upon Ezekiel 18:31 to make yourself a new heart and new spirit? Are you not comfortable with God having this control over your beliefs?

 

[EmSw]

His foreknowledge is simply A result from His "foreplan".
Unless of course, He just "closed His eyes" and made a wish.

So, which came first, His foreknowledge or His foreplan?

Since you say His foreknowledge is a result of His foreplan, was there a time God didn't know everything?

 

[Rick Otto]

So, which came first, His foreknowledge or His foreplan?

Since you say His foreknowledge is a result of His foreplan, was there a time God didn't know everything?

LOL!
You have to have a plan before you can have knowledge of it, right?
What of everything was there to know before everything was created?

 

[EmSw]

LOL!
You have to have a plan before you can have knowledge of it, right?

Not if you are omniscient!

What of everything was there to know before everything was created?

Are you saying God is not omniscient?

 

[Rick Otto]

Not if you are omniscient!



Are you saying God is not omniscient?

I would agree God is omniscient.
You seem to be setting up a paradox.

 

[EmSw]

I would agree God is omniscient.
You seem to be setting up a paradox.

How is that? I'm not the one saying He didn't know until He had a plan, thus limiting His omniscience.