Calvinism, explained.

[ToBeLoved]

There is nothing that God did not plan for my life. Just because I would say "Lord willing, we'll find a new home" or "Lord willing, we'll have more children" etc. does not mean that He didn't already plan these things for my life before I was even born. He did predestine that I would walk the first 30 years of my life as a lost sinner, walking in darkness, doing work that was of the devil. He also predestined that at a certain point in time my life would change, and I would no longer be lost. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I am grateful that I was not left in darkness. I am grateful of the plan He has for me. I am grateful that He is in control.

That didn't answer the question.

 

[EmSw]

There is nothing that God did not plan for my life. Just because I would say "Lord willing, we'll find a new home" or "Lord willing, we'll have more children" etc. does not mean that He didn't already plan these things for my life before I was even born. He did predestine that I would walk the first 30 years of my life as a lost sinner, walking in darkness, doing work that was of the devil. He also predestined that at a certain point in time my life would change, and I would no longer be lost. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I am grateful that I was not left in darkness. I am grateful of the plan He has for me. I am grateful that He is in control.

Thank you Doug. The problem I see with this, is that God's predestination for a person changes. Nothing is set in concrete. What keeps Him from changing His predestination for your salvation? What if He predestines at a certain point in your life, it would change to where you no longer His child? You can never be sure, and you have no say in His predestined changes.

 

[tulipbee]

Really tulipbee? If you have other things to do, why are you on here?

But don't worry, you are not alone; no one seems to want to answer this question.

Theres a balance here among people. Those that are paranoid should talk to paranoid people. You show fear. Your afraid of the truths and run your month endlessly scamming folks by shifting to what man wants. I try to use the minimum amount of words due to too many busyminded folks here. Busy minds are not calm enough and clear enough to see the big picture. Predestination is the big picture. If you want to discuss big things like the birds eye view of God then you need to speak less and ask questions wisely not foolishly like accusing God that he doesn't have the power to do things according to his pleasure not yours. If you ask me questions and boast at the same time then your conversations will go around in circles and you'll shout you got no answers.

 

[sdowney717]

So the 'good seeds' proves your point? I don't think so. You must have something better than these verses.

Huh?
It sure does 'prove my point', and God's word is not open to a private interpretation, the scripture means exactly what it says.
It is not 'my point', it is 'Christ's point'.
There are only two basic types of people, the ones planted by the Lord who are sons of God's kingdom, and the ones planted by the devil who are sons of the devil.
Did not Christ call Judas a devil?

John 6:70
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

So Judas was of the devil, a son of the devil, a son of perdition.
Judas was no different than Cain who was also of the wicked one.
John 17:12New King James Version (NKJV)
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[sdowney717]

Thank you Doug. The problem I see with this, is that God's predestination for a person changes. Nothing is set in concrete. What keeps Him from changing His predestination for your salvation? What if He predestines at a certain point in your life, it would change to where you no longer His child? You can never be sure, and you have no say in His predestined changes.

Romans 9
9 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

As Apostle Paul wrote, that is the truth right there.
As far as His predestination of someone changing, that is a lie, as we have been predestined from the foundation of the world.
Everything about you is foreknown and foredetermined beforehand.
People who deny that, deny God's foreknowledge, and make him a weak God who does not know all things and speak of a God that is not in the bible, but one of their own evil imaginations.

 

[tulipbee]

Are there any questions that are related to God and not man?

 

[GillDouglas]

Thank you Doug. The problem I see with this, is that God's predestination for a person changes. Nothing is set in concrete. What keeps Him from changing His predestination for your salvation? What if He predestines at a certain point in your life, it would change to where you no longer His child? You can never be sure, and you have no say in His predestined changes.

Wayne,

I appreciate your thoughts here. However, I disagree with you that the plan changes, it was set in concrete in an instant. From our perspective of course we see that our life is constantly changing for better or for worse, but believe me that is part of the process to bring us right where He intends us to be, every time. It's part of the growth in our walk, the things He knows will benefit us whether we consider it good or bad.

Because we view salvation a bit differently (you and I) I can understand why you won't agree with me on the above. In my opinion the point we start doing work for the Holy Spirit, instead of the devil, is instant and is permanent. That's not to say we no longer sin, but even that sin is intended for growth. The process in which a man becomes more holy and sanctified is the lifelong event with many ups and downs. I am forever His according to His word, and for me to be more Christ like requires His work within me and my constant prayer for His guidance.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Huh?
It sure does 'prove my point', and God's word is not open to a private interpretation, the scripture means exactly what it says.
It is not 'my point', it is 'Christ's point'.
There are only two basic types of people, the ones planted by the Lord who are sons of God's kingdom, and the ones planted by the devil who are sons of the devil.
Did not Christ call Judas a devil?

John 6:70
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

So Judas was of the devil, a son of the devil, a son of perdition.
Judas was no different than Cain who was also of the wicked one.
John 17:12New King James Version (NKJV)
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

I don't think it proves predestination at all

 

[EmSw]

Theres a balance here among people. Those that are paranoid should talk to paranoid people. You show fear. Your afraid of the truths and run your month endlessly scamming folks by shifting to what man wants. I try to use the minimum amount of words due to too many busyminded folks here. Busy minds are not calm enough and clear enough to see the big picture. Predestination is the big picture. If you want to discuss big things like the birds eye view of God then you need to speak less and ask questions wisely not foolishly like accusing God that he doesn't have the power to do things according to his pleasure not yours. If you ask me questions and boast at the same time then your conversations will go around in circles and you'll shout you got no answers.

Okay, but did God predestine you to be a lost sinner, to walk in darkness, and to be under the power of Satan?

 

[EmSw]

Romans 9
9 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

As Apostle Paul wrote, that is the truth right there.
As far as His predestination of someone changing, that is a lie, as we have been predestined from the foundation of the world.
Everything about you is foreknown and foredetermined beforehand.
People who deny that, deny God's foreknowledge, and make him a weak God who does not know all things and speak of a God that is not in the bible, but one of their own evil imaginations.

Tell me the predestination God had for these people:

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Did God predestine these people to be in the faith, and later predestine them to depart from the faith, even listening to doctrines of devils?

What keeps God from predestining you to depart from the faith?

 

[EmSw]

Are there any questions that are related to God and not man?

Predestination, according to Calvinists, is related to God.

 

[EmSw]

Wayne,

I appreciate your thoughts here. However, I disagree with you that the plan changes, it was set in concrete in an instant. From our perspective of course we see that our life is constantly changing for better or for worse, but believe me that is part of the process to bring us right where He intends us to be, every time. It's part of the growth in our walk, the things He knows will benefit us whether we consider it good or bad.

Doug, if I am understanding you correctly, God's plan is only for the final destiny for man. What happens in between is not God's plan. Everything in between is only a process to reach the final plan for man.

So far, I've seen three Reformed posters on here who do not believe God predestined everything. One even said God predestines everything, but changed that when speaking of man being born a lost sinner.

What exactly does predestination mean to you? Is everything predestined by God? Is God's plan the same as predestination?

Because we view salvation a bit differently (you and I) I can understand why you won't agree with me on the above. In my opinion the point we start doing work for the Holy Spirit, instead of the devil, is instant and is permanent. That's not to say we no longer sin, but even that sin is intended for growth. The process in which a man becomes more holy and sanctified is the lifelong event with many ups and downs. I am forever His according to His word, and for me to be more Christ like requires His work within me and my constant prayer for His guidance.

Was the work you did for the devil predestined by God, or did He just let things happen by chance (as the Reformed like to say against the non-Calvinists)? How about those who depart from the faith? Did God predestine that, or would you say it's God's process to reach the final plan?

What would keep God from having you not depart from the faith? Do you even have a say in it?

 

[tulipbee]

Okay, but did God predestine you to be a lost sinner, to walk in darkness, and to be under the power of Satan?

You can't ask trick questions to decieve people. They are not biblical questions to ask unless you're qualified to understand what you're asking. These questions shows you don't understand God. They are man made question designed by satan. You're leading us to think about God under your terms.

Charles Spurgeon:

-I believe that every particle of dust that dances in the sunbeam does not move an atom more or less than God wishes

-that every particle of spray that dashes against the steamboat has its orbit, as well as the sun in the heavens—

-that the chaff from the hand of the winnower is steered as the stars in their courses.

-The creeping of an aphid over the rosebud is as much fixed as the march of the devastating pestilence—

-the fall of sere leaves from a poplar is as fully ordained as the tumbling of an avalanche.

Use this birds eye view of the gospel and orbit your questions off that. Calvinists don't answer you cause they don't want to take the chance or come close to blasphemy like you do.

Answer this question. Is there a spot where God isn't there?

 

[tulipbee]

Tell me the predestination God had for these people:

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Did God predestine these people to be in the faith, and later predestine them to depart from the faith, even listening to doctrines of devils?

What keeps God from predestining you to depart from the faith?

Paul is attacking false teachers here. Speaking of demons is a reference to false teachers.

 

[EmSw]

You can't ask trick questions to decieve people. They are not biblical questions to ask unless you're qualified to understand what you're asking. These questions shows you don't understand God. They are man made question designed by satan. You're leading us to think about God under your terms.

It's not a trick question. Either you believe it or you don't. Why are you having a hard time answering?

Charles Spurgeon:

-I believe that every particle of dust that dances in the sunbeam does not move an atom more or less than God wishes

-that every particle of spray that dashes against the steamboat has its orbit, as well as the sun in the heavens—

-that the chaff from the hand of the winnower is steered as the stars in their courses.

-The creeping of an aphid over the rosebud is as much fixed as the march of the devastating pestilence—

-the fall of sere leaves from a poplar is as fully ordained as the tumbling of an avalanche.

Use this birds eye view of the gospel and orbit your questions off that. Calvinists don't answer you cause they don't want to take the chance or come close to blasphemy like you do.

Answer this question. Is there a spot where God isn't there?

Spurgeon speaks of the physical things of nature. I'm asking about the spiritual condition of man. Is everything predestined that affects man's spiritual condition? Is talking about predestination blasphemy?

 

[tulipbee]

Predestination, according to Calvinists, is related to God.

If the Calvinists shows you the scripture then go to the scripture and go from there. Feed off the scriptures

 

[EmSw]

Paul is attacking false teachers here. Speaking of demons is a reference to false teachers.

Wow, Calvinists say God gives faith, and these men departed from the faith. How can man undo what God gives? So, you are saying false teachers can have faith, which only God gives. Since you believe God gave you faith, how are you assured you won't depart from God's gift of faith?

 

[EmSw]

If the Calvinists shows you the scripture then go to the scripture and go from there. Feed off the scriptures

That's why I am asking questions. Show me where God does or doesn't predestine men to be lost sinners, under the power of Satan, and destined to hell. I can't find it, can you?

 

[tulipbee]

It's not a trick question. Either you believe it or you don't. Why are you having a hard time answering?



Spurgeon speaks of the physical things of nature. I'm asking about the spiritual condition of man. Is everything predestined that affects man's spiritual condition? Is talking about predestination blasphemy?

Only God causes the belief in his children. You're saying he doesn't. The physical things respond to God's wills and you're saying God isn't powerful enough to soften the hearts. Your questions can only be asked from a hard stony heart. If you're not careful, it will crack. You're getting more brittle on re-asking improper questions. You ought to leave your denomination and its beliefs. It doesn't sound right.

 

[tulipbee]

Wow, Calvinists say God gives faith, and these men departed from the faith. How can man undo what God gives? So, you are saying false teachers can have faith, which only God gives. Since you believe God gave you faith, how are you assured you won't depart from God's gift of faith?

No, your saying God's faith don't always work. I believe it works each and every time.