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Calvinism, explained.

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Patmos

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hypocrisy in your words?

You posted this:
I'm so glad that I was was saved from Jacob Arminius and his (unknowing) followers.

In response to your slur I posted this"
'In this fallen state, the freewill of man towards the true good is not only wounded, maimed, infirm, bent; and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace; but it has no powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace. For Christ has said: "Without me ye can do nothing".'

Where is is the hypocrisy, brian ?

You respond with this:
Fairly accurate statement if not for, "assisted by grace".
I God were only to assists us, He would only be due part of the glory. The rest would belong to us.
( Which is just your opinion .)

and

What are you even talking about?
You do realize that you've condemned yourself within your very own post, do you not? Quite humorous.

Condemned but humorous you say !
You ignore the question re Arminus and chosen, several times. If he is so bad that you were "saved from him", what do you make of moderate Calvinist such as:

Jacob Arminus of course.
Restated in various words by Marvin Knox in this forum at least a dozen times.

You said you were in an Arminian church, then changed and said, no, it was a Pelegian church! So which was it ?

If you can refer to the post where you claim I have been a hypocrite, please refer to it and I will deal with it.

Thanks
 
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Marvin Knox

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I love what RC Sproul says about this: "Sinners are searching for God like criminals are searching for a cop".
“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
"Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee."
CHARLES WESLEY
 
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Marvin Knox

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......................... Also what CF looks like from there.
I don't even want to think about the number of posts people have published in Christian Forums that will issue in a negative judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ.:eek:
 
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Patmos

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I don't even want to think about the times that posts published in Christian Forums will be mentioned at the Judgement seat of

I don't even want to think about the number of posts people have published in Christian Forums that will issue in a negative judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ.:eek:


Good points.
 
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BABerean2

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God has a plan.

It would be strange to say in one sentence that God, having infinite wisdom and power, would create all things and have no definite and perfect plan for those things. Even a man, who is subject to all kinds of errors, develops a plan or idea before he acts; and a man who starts a housing project without design or purpose we'd consider foolish. If this is true of men, how much more is it true of God? And since we believe that God is infinite, His plan must extend to every single detail for ALL these things. We cannot conceive of God bringing into existence a universe without a plan which would extend to all that would happen and all things in that universe. The Scriptures teach that God's providential control extends to everything, therefore His plan too must be equally comprehensive.

God has the best possible plan for this world, and Calvinists hold strongly to the understanding of His ruling power and trust in Him. The Calvinist recognizes that God is God, and He is free from all human limitations. Nothing, however small, occurs without His ordering or design for its place in the working out of His purposes; and the end of all shall be the manifestation of His glory. The sinful acts of men are included in this plan, even the fall itself. These acts are foreseen, permitted and have their exact place in the Divine design. Just look at the crucifixion of Christ for the example, being both a horrible sinful crime and the saving event for His people, it had its exact and necessary place in the plan as told by the prophets.

History in all its details and the smallest actions of men is but the unfolding of the eternal purposes of God. His decrees are not successively formed as the emergency arises, but are all parts of one all-comprehending plan, and we should never think of God suddenly evolving a new plan or changing something in order to react to the will of men.

God is sovereign.

God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He exerts not merely a general influence, but actually rules in the world in which He has created. All things without exception are disposed by Him, and His will is the ultimate account of all that occurs. He permits all that He wills, including the actions of men, so that what He has ordained will come to pass. Individual personalities and second causes are fully recognized, not as independent of God, but as having their proper place in His plan.

The tendency is to set aside God's sovereignty in order to make room for the autocracy of the human will. The pride and presumption of man, on the one hand, and his ignorance and depravity on the other, lead him to exclude God and to exalt himself instead. God is the ultimate source of all power that is found in His creation. God has lost none of His power over creation, and it is highly dishonoring to Him to suppose that He struggles against the wills of men to attempt to accomplish His purposes.

Nature of men.

From birth men are under the curse of sin brought about through the bloodline of Adam. Because men are cursed they are actuated by wrong principles, doing no good for the glory of God, and completely incapable of loving God or doing anything that could bring about the removal of the curse. Additionally he may have intellectual knowledge of the facts and doctrines of the Bible yet he lacks the spiritual discernment of the excellence of the Scriptures and ability to understand them. Cursed men are unable to perform any spiritual actions, only actions befitting of their nature. This man is a captive, a willing slave to sin, and entirely unable to deliver himself from its bondage nor would he care to until he is made willing.

Many are chosen, but not all.

The essence of the Bible, or underlining story, is the redemption of sinners. Since we know that God is sovereign in all things and men are unable to save themselves, it is safe to say that it is God who saves men and He is sovereign in choosing who is redeemed. Our salvation flows from the fountain of God's mercy and He adopts us, not all promiscuously to the hope of salvation, but rather He surely gives to some what He definitely refuses to others. The Divine will never made dependent on the creatures will for its determinations, all who are and will be His are rightfully so by His plan alone. By His decree he has determined some to everlasting life out of His mere grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, according to His will. The rest are passed by to be left in their natural state to the praise of His glorious justice, all for His glory.
Since God has chosen some and not others to eternal life, it is plain to see whom the primary purpose of Christ's work was intended for. Not all men, but His Elect.

Effective and permanent change.

In regards only to those whom God has elected to salvation by His saving grace there is a total and permanent change that occurs in them. At an appointed time predetermined by the His sovereign will, His spirit comes upon a man's heart convincing him of his current state of sin and misery, enlightening his mind in the knowledge of Christ and beginning the work of salvation. This cursed man, being altered and changed by the working of the Holy Spirit, is enabled to answer to call to salvation and embrace the grace freely offered. And if God has chosen these men absolutely and unconditionally to eternal life, and if His Spirit has effectively applied the benefit of redemption, the conclusion is that the persons shall not be lost, ever. The whole course of the salvation of men is divinely planned and divinely guided, not thwarted or altered by the will of men. This is Calvinism in a nutshell, explained to the best of my understanding.

I can not call myself a Calvinist, because Calvin was a man made of the same rotten flesh that I am made of.

The principle of election is a fact that cannot be denied in the twin grandsons of Abraham, one loved and one hated for the purpose of producing the seed that would be the savior of the world.

It is something I must accept, which was written in scripture, long before John Calvin was ever born.

As a man who knows that God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts, it is something I must accept, even though I cannot claim to fully understand it.

It produces those baptized in the Holy Spirit.


1Co_6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?



Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (In this verse the word water would most likely be amniotic fluid.)

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


It comes through faith in Christ which passes one from death unto life.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It cannot occur through a ceremony produced on infants.

It occurs only through faith in the One who bought us with His Blood at the Cross fulfilling the price of the New Blood Covenant.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

It was the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise made to Jeremiah.



Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
It would be a covenant written inside us, on tables of the heart, through the Holy Spirit residing inside of us.


Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


The New Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ is the one thing that unites all denominations together into one.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (The promises made to Abraham were made only to Christ.)


Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(The Sinai covenant was added 430 years "after" the promise to Abraham.)


Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.


Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(The Law was added "until" the seed could come.)


Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.


Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.


Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.


Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We inherit the promise made to Abraham, through faith in Christ.

We are now under a higher law.



Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (Sinai covenant)


Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Law from Christ)


Paul says we are to cast out the Sinai covenant of bondage.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.



Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


The New Covenant has made the Sinai covenant "obsolete".

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The New Blood Covenant is not a New "Administration" of the Sinai covenant. It is something totally different.

It produces those baptized by the Holy Spirit from God, which works to mold us into the image of Christ, by constantly correcting us in our daily battle with sin.


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


The New Blood Covenant Church of Jesus Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of God's plan, made before the foundation of the world.

The whole Bible is a book about Jesus Christ.


Heb_9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Bible Gateway: New Covenant
.https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=New+Covenant&qs_version=NKJV
 
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Marvin Knox

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I can not call myself a Calvinist, because Calvin was a man made of the same rotten flesh that I am made of.

The principle of election is a fact that cannot be denied in the twin grandsons of Abraham, one loved and one hated for the purpose of producing the seed that would be the savior of the world.

It is something I must accept, which was written in scripture, long before John Calvin was ever born.

As a man who knows that God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts, it is something I must accept, even though I cannot claim to fully understand it.

It produces those baptized in the Holy Spirit.


1Co_6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?



Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (In this verse the word water would most likely be amniotic fluid.)

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


It comes through faith in Christ which passes one from death unto life.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It cannot occur through a ceremony produced on infants.

It occurs only through faith in the One who bought us with His Blood at the Cross fulfilling the price of the New Blood Covenant.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

It was the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise made to Jeremiah.



Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
It would be a covenant written inside us, on tables of the heart, through the Holy Spirit residing inside of us.


Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


The New Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ is the one thing that unites all denominations together into one.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (The promises made to Abraham were made only to Christ.)


Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(The Sinai covenant was added 430 years "after" the promise to Abraham.)


Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.


Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(The Law was added "until" the seed could come.)


Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.


Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.


Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.


Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We inherit the promise made to Abraham, through faith in Christ.

We are now under a higher law.



Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (Sinai covenant)


Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Law from Christ)


Paul says we are to cast out the Sinai covenant of bondage.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.



Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


The New Covenant has made the Sinai covenant "obsolete".

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The New Blood Covenant is not a New "Administration" of the Sinai covenant. It is something totally different.

It produces those baptized by the Holy Spirit from God, which works to mold us into the image of Christ, by constantly correcting us in our daily battle with sin.


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


The New Blood Covenant Church of Jesus Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of God's plan, made before the foundation of the world.

The whole Bible is a book about Jesus Christ.


.
Lots of good information there brother.

But it might have been easier just to give us a link to Bible Gateway.:)
 
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sdowney717

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I can't give myself credit for saving myself cause God gives the gift of faith
Yes He does.
Gifts of faith are also measured by Him, some have more, all have saving faith.
Acts 3
16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know.
Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

Romans 12
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

even the disciples asked the Lord Jesus to increase their faith. They knew where faith comes from.
Luke 17
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.”

6 So the Lord said, “If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.

It only takes a tiny, seemingly inconsequential faith to move giant things, since God through Christ is the author and finisher of our faith, and things happen according to His will, we are privileged to behold His majesty.
 
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nobdysfool

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Let me point out that in Romans 12:3, Paul is not talking about all men everywhere, nor is he talking about unsaved men in general. One little phrase that nearly everyone overlooks: "to everyone who is among YOU" That verse is speaking to and about those to whom the letter is addressed, and they are all believers. He is saying that God has dealt to each of THEM a measure of faith. To make any wider application of that verse, especially to make it appear to say that God has dealt to all men without exception a measure of faith, is to twist and distort the Scripture and its meaning. That is not what Paul was saying, nor his intent.
 
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sdowney717

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Yes, the world has no faith in God and Christ.
If they did, they would be saved.
God grants no faith to the unsaved.
Some teach God gives all faith, then they must choose to believe, which fits their private idea. But we are justified by faith, so anyone who has faith in Christ is justified.
 
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sdowney717

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Hebrews 11 says God rewards those who believe in and seek Him .
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

But how can anyone seek for God?
Scripture says no one seeks for God.

Romans 3
10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.

By using the phrase 'As it is written', Paul doubly emphasizes the truth to us that there are none who seek for God. NONE who understand spiritual realities.
To have faith that pleases God, it must come by His divine revelation to us, or we will have no faith to come to God in belief and seek God at all. So our faith is not of ourselves, it is God's gift to those who will be the ones He has chosen to seek Him.
God is not pleased with those who have no faith, all such persons are reprobate.
 
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tulipbee

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Yes, the world has no faith in God and Christ.
If they did, they would be saved.
God grants no faith to the unsaved.
Some teach God gives all faith, then they must choose to believe, which fits their private idea. But we are justified by faith, so anyone who has faith in Christ is justified.
Catholic traditions are private ideas. That turned the RCC into a denomination.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Yes He does.
Gifts of faith are also measured by Him, some have more, all have saving faith.
Acts 3
16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know.
Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
This is your proof text?
Acts 3:16
16 "And on the basis of faith in His name, it is the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.
 
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Marvin Knox

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A natural man cannot receive the things of God because the things of God are spiritually discerned and natural man is spiritually dead.

No one understands and no one seeks God.

Without faith it impossible to please God.

We can only be justified before Him through faith.

Faith is a gift from God.

God is the author and perfecter of our faith.

These basic truths seem pretty clear really.:amen:

Thank God for His indescribably gift.
 
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Patmos

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A natural man cannot receive the things of God because the things of God are spiritually discerned and natural man is spiritually dead.

No one understands and no one seeks God.
Without faith it impossible to please God.
We can only be justified before Him through faith.
Faith is a gift from God.
God is the author and perfecter of our faith.
These basic truths seem pretty clear really.:amen:
Thank God for His indescribably gift.
Hi Marvin

I would like to disagree with you - politely and friendly. If you disagree with me, no problem at all.

I believe natural man CAN receive the things of God. Put him in an outnumbered, out gunned, fight in Afghanistan. Put him in a hospital, being told his wife has about 1/2 an hour left to live. Natural man gets receiving the things of God pretty fast in my experience. Real practical front line experience.

What you say above is, IMO, spot on, in the normal run of things natural man does not give a hoot. I believe though, natural man can, and is able to receive. Just that some have thicker skulls than others and need a bigger kick.

This probably makes me an inconsistent Arminian. I'm OK with that.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Hi Marvin

I would like to disagree with you - politely and friendly. If you disagree with me, no problem at all.

I believe natural man CAN receive the things of God. Put him in an outnumbered, out gunned, fight in Afghanistan. Put him in a hospital, being told his wife has about 1/2 an hour left to live. Natural man gets receiving the things of God pretty fast in my experience. Real practical front line experience.

What you say above is, IMO, spot on, in the normal run of things natural man does not give a hoot. I believe though, natural man can, and is able to receive. Just that some have thicker skulls than others and need a bigger kick.

This probably makes me an inconsistent Arminian. I'm OK with that.

It actually places you firmly in Pelagian territory, which was deemed heretical by:

  • Councils of Carthage (412, 416, and 418)
  • Council of Ephesus (431)
  • The Council of Orange (529)
  • Council of Trent (1546) Roman Catholic
  • 2nd Helvetic (1561/66) 8-9. (Swiss-German Reformed)
  • Augsburg Confession (1530) Art. 9, 18 (Lutheran)
  • Gallican Confession (1559) Art. 10 (French Reformed)
  • Belgic Confession (1561) Art. 15 (Lowlands, French/Dutch/German Reformed)
  • The Anglican Articles (1571), 9. (English)
  • Canons of Dort (1618-9), 3/4.2 (Dutch/German/French Reformed)
 
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EmSw

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A natural man cannot receive the things of God because the things of God are spiritually discerned and natural man is spiritually dead.

No one understands and no one seeks God.

Without faith it impossible to please God.

We can only be justified before Him through faith.

Faith is a gift from God.

God is the author and perfecter of our faith.

These basic truths seem pretty clear really.:amen:

Thank God for His indescribably gift.

No one has yet to explain how or why 'former' Calvinists, who were just as entrenched in Reformed teachings as anyone on this forum, could understand and seek God.

Someone mentioned they were tares, but this again suggests they understood and sought God. Who gave these tares the ability to understand Reformed teachings and embrace them?
 
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ToBeLoved

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No one has yet to explain how or why 'former' Calvinists, who were just as entrenched in Reformed teachings as anyone on this forum, could understand and seek God.

Someone mentioned they were tares, but this again suggests they understood and sought God. Who gave these tares the ability to understand Reformed teachings and embrace them?
Can you give a specifc verse and can we go back to the Greek. It might clarify this with a specific word used.
 
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