Calvinism, explained.

[EmSw]

Can you give a specifc verse and can we go back to the Greek. It might clarify this with a specific word used.

A specific verse on what?

 

[ToBeLoved]

A specific verse on what?

Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought there was a specific verse you were referencing.

 

[EmSw]

Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought there was a specific verse you were referencing.

No. Some mentioned the natural man cannot understand, nor seek God. I was asking about those 'Calvinists' who left and departed from Reformed teachings.

 

[Marvin Knox]

No one has yet to explain how or why 'former' Calvinists, who were just as entrenched in Reformed teachings as anyone on this forum, could understand and seek God.

Someone mentioned they were tares, but this again suggests they understood and sought God. Who gave these tares the ability to understand Reformed teachings and embrace them?

I don't want to dialog with him anymore.

But does anyone understand what the heck is this guy talking about?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

What the heck is this guy talking about?

I don't want to dialog with him anymore.

But does anyone understand what the heck is this guy talking about?

I gave up as well, and no, I have no idea what that means.

 

[nobdysfool]

He's just trying to create discord where there is none.

He wants a verse? Here it is:
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[EmSw]

I don't want to dialog with him anymore.

But does anyone understand what the heck is this guy talking about?

Marvin, you know what I mean. You say you can understand how God thought and acted before the eternity, but can't understand a simple man as I. If you can't understand me, how do you understand God, Who in unknowable wisdom, is beyond your reach of intelligence?

I can discern your reason for not wanting to dialog anymore. It takes patience and love towards one another to have your eyes opened in understanding each other. Have you not read what Paul said about love?

1 Corinthians 13
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Even if one claims to know the mysteries of God, if he doesn't have charity, he is nothing. If a man does not have charity, it will profit him nothing, absolutely nothing.

Paul said there abides faith, hope, and charity. And the greatest of these is charity, not faith. Whatever one claims faith can do, charity will do that and more.

 

[EmSw]

I gave up as well, and no, I have no idea what that means.

I am surprised at the wisdom Calvinists perceive to possess, but can't seem to understand what is being said.

 

[EmSw]

He's just trying to create discord where there is none.

He wants a verse? Here it is:
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So NF, how do you correlate that verse with the Calvinists who walk away? Can a man understand Calvinism if it is foolishness to him? Can he even know what Calvinism means? Can he accept what Calvinism teaches?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am surprised at the wisdom Calvinists perceive to possess, but can't seem to understand what is being said.

I think that it just feels special to be chosen by God, elect. The human pride loves that. It is with the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit that I get past that and just want salvation for others. I don't really have a heavy heart to prove Calvinism wrong. I just hate the way they talk to babes in Christ doubting their salvation.

 

[nobdysfool]

So NF, how do you correlate that verse with the Calvinists who walk away? Can a man understand Calvinism if it is foolishness to him? Can he even know what Calvinism means? Can he accept what Calvinism teaches?

I have no idea what you're talking about. Calvinists who walk away? Where was that even brought up? And what relevance does it have to this discussion? This seems to be just more divisive talk from you to stir up trouble, and make false accusations. Unless you can provide actual quotes from people here who have said such things, as far as I'm concerned it's just smoke.

 

[nobdysfool]

I think that it just feels special to be chosen by God, elect. The human pride loves that. It is with the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit that I get past that and just want salvation for others. I don't really have a heavy heart to prove Calvinism wrong. I just hate the way they talk to babes in Christ doubting their salvation.

More falsehoods and false accusations. Where have Calvinists ever talked to babes in christ and cast doubt on their salvation? I've seen several non-Calvinists here doing just that, with their works-based scare tactics, but I have never seen a Calvinist here say anything of the sort. I certainly never have.

 

[ToBeLoved]

More falsehoods and false accusations. Where have Calvinists ever talked to babes in christ and cast doubt on their salvation? I've seen several non-Calvinists here doing just that, with their works-based scare tactics, but I have never seen a Calvinist here say anything of the sort. I certainly never have.

I've been on CF long enough that I have seen it, many times. Thank you. These are a few examples.

"You would know that you were Christ if you had the Holy Spirit and God called you"
"If you do not have faith, you have not been given it by God"
"If you doubt your salvation, you never had it"

I'm sorry if you do not agree, but this is what I have seen.

 

[EmSw]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Calvinists who walk away? Where was that even brought up? And what relevance does it have to this discussion? This seems to be just more divisive talk from you to stir up trouble, and make false accusations. Unless you can provide actual quotes from people here who have said such things, as far as I'm concerned it's just smoke.

Since you can't figure out what I am speaking of, I will start a new thread tomorrow and maybe you will participate and stop smoking.

 

[nobdysfool]

Since you can't figure out what I am speaking of, I will start a new thread tomorrow and maybe you will participate and stop smoking.

I didn't say I was smoking, I said that you're blowing smoke, unless you can provide actual quotes from people who have said what you claim. This is a prime example of how you twist what others say into something they did not say.

 

[nobdysfool]

I've been on CF long enough that I have seen it, many times. Thank you. These are a few examples.

"You would know that you were Christ if you had the Holy Spirit and God called you"
"If you do not have faith, you have not been given it by God"
"If you doubt your salvation, you never had it"

I'm sorry if you do not agree, but this is what I have seen.

If you're going to make claims, you should back them up with more than just words in quotations. If you have seen those things said, provide the thread and/or post number, or something more substantial than just unattributed "quotes".

 

[Marvin Knox]

I've been on CF long enough that I have seen it, many times. Thank you. These are a few examples.

"You would know that you were Christ if you had the Holy Spirit and God called you"
"If you do not have faith, you have not been given it by God"
"If you doubt your salvation, you never had it"

I'm sorry if you do not agree, but this is what I have seen.

Actual quotes by "Calvinists" or not - the first two are spot on. Nothing inflammatory or theologically controversial there IMO. I doubt that they would ever be said to a "babe" in Christ by any Calvinist though.

The third "quote" is not something that anyone, Calvinist or otherwise, would say to a person doubting their salvation.

You'll have to provide a source for that third "quote" or I just won't believe that it was ever said. No offense. Will you provide it please?

Often times people put things in quotes just to emphasis the idea that they are the "type" of thing that people say or think. If that's the case here, I understand that and have done it myself.

But, even if that's the case, it misrepresents what Calvinists teach or even believe.

 

[ToBeLoved]

If you're going to make claims, you should back them up with more than just words in quotations. If you have seen those things said, provide the thread and/or post number, or something more substantial than just unattributed "quotes".

After 3 1/2 years and over 9,000 posts? I don't have that much time. Wish I did. You might use search though, but even that would be very difficult.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Actual quotes by "Calvinists" or not - the first two are spot on. Nothing inflammatory or theologically controversial there IMO. I doubt that they would ever be said to a "babe" in Christ by any Calvinist though.

.

Well even Paul says different. He uses I believe milk and meat to distinguish.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Actual quotes by "Calvinists" or not - the first two are spot on. Nothing inflammatory or theologically controversial there IMO. I doubt that they would ever be said to a "babe" in Christ by any Calvinist though.

I believe that we can pray for more faith. I have and gotten it.

Why is praying for faith so not allowed?