Calvinism, explained.

[Marvin Knox]

You changing your mind again?

"Calvinism" doesn't "cause" anything.

Are you crazy?

 

[EmSw]

"Calvinism" doesn't "cause" anything.

Are you crazy?

I didn't say anything about 'caused'. I said you believe everything is predestined, determined, decreed, and controlled by God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

How do Calvinists justify this behavior? Do you just say he is not one of us?

Did not his Calvinist beliefs bring him to this point?

I agree. Everytime I read his posts (on other threads to) they are very negative, insulting and unhappy.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'm like filthy rags that surrenders to God's Grace.
I know I'm more worthless than I think.
Least I don't boast like most do here.

Aren't you boasting by saying that you do not boast?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Again, I believe we focusing too much on tulipbee and his personality. Why not ask me a question about an issue you have with Calvinism?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again, I believe we focusing too much on tulipbee and his personality. Why not ask me a question about an issue you have with Calvinism?

Ok. If God created Adam and Eve with no sin in His perfection and they communed with Him before the fall. How can you explain that Eve was able to make the choice to disobey God after God commanded them not too.

Genesis 2:16
16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

And these were the ones that God created perfect.

Also the other thing is that Lucifer, an angel also had free-will to disobey God as did the 1/3 of the angels that fell with him.

How do you then explain that we have no free will? Because God does not bring all to Himself, yet Jesus said "I wish that all would come to me" and Christ can not lie because He is God.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Ok. If God created Adam and Eve with no sin in His perfection and they communed with Him before the fall. How can you explain that Eve was able to make the choice to disobey God after God commanded them not too.

Genesis 2:16
16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

And these were the ones that God created perfect.

Also the other thing is that Lucifer, an angel also had free-will to disobey God as did the 1/3 of the angels that fell with him.

How do you then explain that we have no free will? Because God does not bring all to Himself, yet Jesus said "I wish that all would come to me" and Christ can not lie because He is God.

They were created upright and good, but nowhere does the Bible say that man or angels were made perfect as God is perfect. Created beings will always be less than the creator: That's just how it goes. Man was made good, not perfect.

Adam and Eve--like all human beings--were capable of making choices. Those choices come from within and are largely based upon our knowledge, experience, and feelings at the time. At the time Adam and Eve sinned they were largely in a state of ignorance, and had not experienced anything bad or evil. This, coupled with the lie from satan, led to the desire to test what eating the fruit would do despite God's clear instruction. The fault was not on God for their choice to sin, nor was it His fault that satan infiltrated the garden. The sin they committed came from their own beings, not God's, and satan's infiltration was his own doing, not God's. Yet even so, God had planned from the very beginning that these things would be for His glorious plan and purpose.

The doctrine of free will suggests that man can make choices from thin air--uninfluenced by anything. That, however, is not what happens in reality. When someone makes a choice, there are an astounding number of influences, such as the ones I explained above. Man is not free as God is free: He is bound to his nature, surroundings, and limited knowledge.

With regards to Jesus saying "I wish that all would come to me," I ask that you would provide the chapter and verse.

Thanks for your question btw.

 

[Aldebaran]

Those that like your garbage.
Can't be me cause I know you don't use your mind.

Pride goes before a fall.

 

[Aldebaran]

Can you prove that Calvinism caused him to say that?

Well, if it's not Calvanism, and we know it's not Christianity that makes him say that, then what?

 

[Aldebaran]

They were created upright and good, but nowhere does the Bible say that man or angels were made perfect as God is perfect. Created beings will always be less than the creator: That's just how it goes. Man was made good, not perfect.

Adam and Eve--like all human beings--were capable of making choices. Those choices come from within and are largely based upon our knowledge, experience, and feelings at the time. At the time Adam and Eve sinned they were largely in a state of ignorance, and had not experienced anything bad or evil. This, coupled with the lie from satan, led to the desire to test what eating the fruit would do despite God's clear instruction. The fault was not on God for their choice to sin, nor was it His fault that satan infiltrated the garden. The sin they committed came from their own beings, not God's, and satan's infiltration was his own doing, not God's. Yet even so, God had planned from the very beginning that these things would be for His glorious plan and purpose.

The doctrine of free will suggests that man can make choices from thin air--uninfluenced by anything. That, however, is not what happens in reality. When someone makes a choice, there are an astounding number of influences, such as the ones I explained above. Man is not free as God is free: He is bound to his nature, surroundings, and limited knowledge.

With regards to Jesus saying "I wish that all would come to me," I ask that you would provide the chapter and verse.

Thanks for your question btw.

This doesn't really address the Calvanistic idea that God has chosen some people to be saved, and others to not be saved. That's the real issue people who aren't Calvanists have with Calvanism.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Well, if it's not Calvanism, and we know it's not Christianity that makes him say that, then what?

Oh, i don't know... how about the fact that man is a fallen creature? Have you never been rude in your life?

Just because a man is both rude and Calvinist does not mean that Calvinism makes one rude. Correlation is not causation my friend.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

This doesn't really address the Calvanistic idea that God has chosen some people to be saved, and others to not be saved. That's the real issue people who aren't Calvanists have with Calvanism.

Well, I would be glad to address that, but that's not the question ToBeLoved asked.

 

[Aldebaran]

Oh, i don't know... how about the fact that man is a fallen creature? Have you never been rude in your life?

Just because a man is both rude and Calvinist does not mean that Calvinism makes one rude. Correlation is not causation my friend.

It may not be fair, but we are known by our fruits. If a person says they're a Christian and a Calvanist and is arrogant toward others (I've seen this from Calvanists in my life before in person), it doesn't give credence to their claims.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

It may not be fair, but we are known by our fruits. If a person says they're a Christian and a Calvanist and is arrogant toward others (I've seen this from Calvanists in my life before in person), it doesn't give credence to their claims.

True, but there are many professing Christians who act hypocritical, are there not?

 

[ToBeLoved]

They were created upright and good, but nowhere does the Bible say that man or angels were made perfect as God is perfect. Created beings will always be less than the creator: That's just how it goes. Man was made good, not perfect.

Ok, I'll change my word. Adam & Eve were perfectly without sin and communed with God in the garden before the fall. How can you explain that Eve was able to make the choice to disobey God?

I did not say that God made any mistake, nor did I say that they were not influenced.

And your statement "The doctrine of free will suggests that man can make choices from thin air--uninfluenced by anything."

Is not what the doctrine of free will is. Maybe your a Calvinist because you lack understanding?

 

[Aldebaran]

True, but there are many professing Christians who act hypocritical, are there not?

Yes. I think that's what's being pointed out.
Arrogance is something I've witnessed in Calvanists many times, both in person and on this site. It's a pattern of behavior that doesn't indicate that what they say is true.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Ok, I'll change my word. Adam & Eve were perfectly without sin and communed with God in the garden before the fall. How can you explain that Eve was able to make the choice to disobey God?

I did not say that God made any mistake, nor did I say that they were not influenced.

And your statement "The doctrine of free will suggests that man can make choices from thin air--uninfluenced by anything."

Is not what the doctrine of free will is. Maybe your a Calvinist because you lack understanding?

I already explained how Eve was able to make the choice: All human beings are capable of making choices.

Free will suggests that in the moment when Eve was being deceived in her ignorance she could have--out of the blue--decided to obey God instead, despite the fact that everything within her (her ignorance, desires, etc) told her to disobey.

I'm not a Calvinist because I lack understanding: I'm a Calvinist because I believe all is to the glory of God--not man.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Yes. I think that's what's being pointed out.
Arrogance is something I've witnessed in Calvanists many times, both in person and on this site. It's a pattern of behavior that doesn't indicate that what they say is true.

Arrogance is the problem, not Calvinism. Have you never met an arrogant Arminian?

 

[ToBeLoved]

With regards to Jesus saying "I wish that all would come to me," I ask that you would provide the chapter and verse.

Thanks for your question btw.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10:13&version=ESV
Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Isaiah 55:1-13
“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. ... Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant

John 5:40
Yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”



There are more if you would like them.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I already explained how Eve was able to make the choice: All human beings are capable of making choices.

Free will suggests that in the moment when Eve was being deceived in her ignorance she could have--out of the blue--decided to obey God instead, despite the fact that everything within her (her ignorance, desires, etc) told her to disobey.

I'm not a Calvinist because I lack understanding: I'm a Calvinist because I believe all is to the glory of God--not man.

Well that is not what Calvinism teaches, so I'm not sure what kind of a Calvinist you are. You do not even understand free-will so how can you say what you are?

Free-will is free-will.

Not having a choice, not free-will.