Calvinism, explained.

[tulipbee]

To me, Calvinism means the placing of the eternal God at the head of all things

 

[EmSw]

To me, Calvinism means the placing of the eternal God at the head of all things

Even His calls which are not effectual?

 

[tulipbee]

Even His calls which are not effectual?

Two calls, general and effectual.
Two are the same gospel.

 

[sdowney717]

Both calls or say any salvation calls are commands to repent and believe as Acts 17 states. The call is not open to disputing, if you disagree with or dispute the call your dead. So God must make you alive who were dead in order for you to respond to that call in faith not of yourself being God's gift to you of salvation.

The call of God that results in an actual salvation is the one that begins with God's foreknowing that His call will actually save His elect whom He chose. Hid word accomplishes the purpose for which it is sent.
Regarding His word, for those whom He foreknew to save, mercy and salvation, and for those He did and does not foreknow, damnation, no mercy, a reprobation.

 

[EmSw]

Two calls, general and effectual.
Two are the same gospel.

This is a man-made doctrine which Calvinism promotes. If it's your cup of tea, you are more than welcome to drink it.

The 'general' call is to all sinners to repent (which includes you, me, and everyone else). What makes the 'general' call 'effectual' is the response of man.

What would make this call effectual?

Matthew 15:10
When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand:

This call is only effectual by the choice of the multitude to come to Jesus. Those of the multitude who did not come made the same call ineffectual.

One call, two outcomes!

 

[EmSw]

Both calls or say any salvation calls are commands to repent and believe as Acts 17 states. The call is not open to disputing, if you disagree with or dispute the call your dead. So God must make you alive who were dead in order for you to respond to that call in faith not of yourself being God's gift to you of salvation.

I did say Jesus calls sinners to repent, so this call is for everyone.

The problem I see with your belief of the dead not being able to respond comes from God's word.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

God's very word tells us we must choose life that we may live. A person is not alive until he chooses life. When (the dead person) chooses life, it is by this choice that he may live. A (dead) man chooses life in order to receive life.

The call of God that results in an actual salvation is the one that begins with God's foreknowing that His call will actually save His elect whom He chose. Hid word accomplishes the purpose for which it is sent.
Regarding His word, for those whom He foreknew to save, mercy and salvation, and for those He did and does not foreknow, damnation, no mercy, a reprobation.

Please tell me who God did not foreknow. You are severely limiting God's knowledge if you say there are some He didn't foreknow.

 

[tulipbee]

This is a man-made doctrine which Calvinism promotes. If it's your cup of tea, you are more than welcome to drink it.

The 'general' call is to all sinners to repent (which includes you, me, and everyone else). What makes the 'general' call 'effectual' is the response of man.

What would make this call effectual?

Matthew 15:10
When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand:

This call is only effectual by the choice of the multitude to come to Jesus. Those of the multitude who did not come made the same call ineffectual.

One call, two outcomes!

I think that you need to re-read your Bible. What does Jesus' name
mean. It means "Saviour - For He will save "His" people from their
sins". The first chapter of Ephesians talks of election. God chose
His people for His own glory. What about God choosing the Israelites
in the Old Testiment? In Romans it states "Jacob I loved, Esau I
hated.". I could go on and on.
We love Him, because He first loved us.
In Revelation "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man hear
my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with
him, and he with me.". This is not talking about unbelievers. This
verse is part of a letter written to the church of Laodicea who were
believers in Jesus. This verse therefore helps me see that it is God
alone who "effectually calls" His people. His calling is
therefore "irresistable" and we come.

 

[tulipbee]

The Christ of Arminianism - offers salvation to every sinner and does all
in his power to bring them to salvation. His offer and work are often
frustrated, for many refuse to come.

The Christ of the Bible - effectually calls to Himself only the elect and
sovereignly brings them to salvation. Not one of them will be lost. (Isa.
55:11, John 5:21, John 6:37-40, John 10:25-30, John 17:2, Phil. 2:13)

 

[EmSw]

I think that you need to re-read your Bible. What does Jesus' name
mean. It means "Saviour - For He will save "His" people from their
sins". The first chapter of Ephesians talks of election. God chose
His people for His own glory. What about God choosing the Israelites
in the Old Testiment? In Romans it states "Jacob I loved, Esau I
hated.". I could go on and on.
We love Him, because He first loved us.
In Revelation "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man hear
my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with
him, and he with me.". This is not talking about unbelievers. This
verse is part of a letter written to the church of Laodicea who were
believers in Jesus. This verse therefore helps me see that it is God
alone who "effectually calls" His people. His calling is
therefore "irresistable" and we come.

Without 'robotic talk', tell us what makes His call effectual.

What did God say to the Israelites? Listen carefully -

He said, 'choose life, that you may live'.

Without choosing life, the Israelites did not have life.

It was their choosing life, that made His call effectual.

 

[drstevej]

John 11
43When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth." 44The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus said to them, "Unbind him, and let him go."

What made DEAD Lazarus come forth. His choice?

 

[Aldebaran]

The Christ of Arminianism - offers salvation to every sinner and does all
in his power to bring them to salvation. His offer and work are often
frustrated, for many refuse to come.

The Christ of the Bible - effectually calls to Himself only the elect and
sovereignly brings them to salvation. Not one of them will be lost. (Isa.
55:11, John 5:21, John 6:37-40, John 10:25-30, John 17:2, Phil. 2:13)

What you refer to as the Christ of Arminianism very well describes how Lucifer and a third of the angels left Heaven due to their own rebellion. You make it sound as if God was too impotent and His will was overthrown by a third of His angels. Same goes for the fall of Adam.

 

[sdowney717]

What you refer to as the Christ of Arminianism very well describes how Lucifer and a third of the angels left Heaven due to their own rebellion. You make it sound as if God was too impotent and His will was overthrown by a third of His angels. Same goes for the fall of Adam.

Jesus did not die to save any angels.
Something to consider is hell was created for the devil and his fallen angels.
So Satan fell before Adam. Satan fell and Hell was then created, before the fall of man.

Going back to Genesis 3, God makes several pronouncements and the devil would be eternally cursed, but for some of man there would be a redemption come by the seed of the woman. This God's promise of Christ and Satan's destiny He spoke directed to the serpent, not to Eve. I view that as salvation being entirely up to God, Eve and Adam are to be redeemed, to undue what Satan had done. In fact, God kills animals and makes a blood sacrifice to cover their nakedness.

Then we read of Cain who killed his brother that Cain was of the evil one, Satan as the apostle John teaches. And Abel was righteous so of God and also approved of.
1 John 3:12
not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

God warns Cain sin has it's desire for him, but Cain being evil of Satan also becomes a murderer. John goes further saying Cain was 'of Satan' and so then did evil. However Abel was not of Satan and neither were Adam and Eve.

 

[sdowney717]

Those who are of Satan are not redeemed, and those who are of God are redeemed.
Jesus teaching of the wheat and tares shows that as does Cain and Abel.
And also Jesus declared of some of the pharisees, etc... they were sons of Hell whose father was the devil, such persons are not redeemed, not ever.

The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[EmSw]

John 11
43When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth." 44The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus said to them, "Unbind him, and let him go."

What made DEAD Lazarus come forth. His choice?

Oh, you are talking about physical death; I thought we were talking about spiritual death.

 

[EmSw]

Jesus did not die to save any angels.
Something to consider is hell was created for the devil and his fallen angels.
So Satan fell before Adam. Satan fell and Hell was then created, before the fall of man.

Going back to Genesis 3, God makes several pronouncements and the devil would be eternally cursed, but for some of man there would be a redemption come by the seed of the woman. This God's promise of Christ and Satan's destiny He spoke directed to the serpent, not to Eve. I view that as salvation being entirely up to God, Eve and Adam are to be redeemed, to undue what Satan had done. In fact, God kills animals and makes a blood sacrifice to cover their nakedness.

Then we read of Cain who killed his brother that Cain was of the evil one, Satan as the apostle John teaches. And Abel was righteous so of God and also approved of.
1 John 3:12
not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

God warns Cain sin has it's desire for him, but Cain being evil of Satan also becomes a murderer. John goes further saying Cain was 'of Satan' and so then did evil. However Abel was not of Satan and neither were Adam and Eve.

So Abel was righteous. Doesn't this go against your beliefs?

 

[sdowney717]

So Abel was righteous. Doesn't this go against your beliefs?

No because righteousness of a person is declared by God and not man.

Romans 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

If God will not impute to a person their sins, then God considers them righteous. Of course not imputing sins means God has chosen to be merciful.
This is entirely up to God to make such a decision.

For now, God declares those who believe, putting their trust in Christ as righteous. In the OT Christ had not yet been revealed so their sin was overlooked, still they were not yet made perfect until Christ came so when they died they went to hell, yet in Paradise in the midst of Hell.

 

[sdowney717]

Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Those who are of God, who have been planted as the good seed by the Son of Man are untouchable by Satan, meaning they can not be lost as he is. Even as Peter even though having Satan speaking through Peter, Christ declared HE had prayed- interceded for Peter and Peter would be turned back to the Lord. The wicked one Satan, can not create the destiny of hell for one who is of God.
1 John 5:18
[ Knowing the True—Rejecting the False ] We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

 

[EmSw]

No because righteousness of a person is declared by God and not man.

Romans 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

If God will not impute to a person their sins, then God considers them righteous. Of course not imputing sins means God has chosen to be merciful.
This is entirely up to God to make such a decision.

For now, God declares those who believe, putting their trust in Christ as righteous. In the OT Christ had not yet been revealed so their sin was overlooked, still they were not yet made perfect until Christ came so when they died they went to hell, yet in Paradise in the midst of Hell.

Why did God declare Abel righteous? Was it because of his works? If Abel did the works Cain did, would he be declared righteous?

 

[Hoghead1]

That is true of Calvin, Tukipbee. However, the problem is how Calvin goes about this. I feel his doctrine of divine omnipotence is a major theological mistake. What it amounts to is introducing God as a ruthless cosmic dictator who has preprogrammed all events to go exactly as he planned them. We are but puppets. Even evil becomes the will of God, as he predestined all evil events. Calvin says, then, that murders, larcenists and other evil doers are the instruments by which God exercises his judgment.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

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