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Calvinism, explained.

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ladodgers6

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You said, 'When God COMMANDS anything, it happens without question.'

What are the 10 commandments but commands? God commands you to love Him with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, as well as your neighbor as yourself. Now you are telling me it doesn't happen without question.

Of course, man's free will is involved for a man to obey His commandments. He must desire and will it freely in order for him to obey them.
The commandments are God's Holy Moral Character,which was also imprinted on the minds and hearts of Adam,Eve and mankind.But these Commandments given to the first Adam were broken through one act of disobedience;which bought sin and death upon us all.But God also made a promise to Adam & Eve that he would send a Redeemer a Last Adam to fulfill this broken Covenant of Works through one act of Obedience.And God promises to make a new Covenant,where God will give us New Hearts and Minds to follow and obey him.Because in Christ we are New Creations and freed from sin and death.Sin and Death now have no power over us,because Christ killed sin the flesh and died the one death for us.
 
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Job8

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When God COMMANDS anything, it happens without question...
OK. Then ALL MEN should be saved eventually, since God commands all men everywhere to repent. Is that your theory, because that would lead to universalism? Do you see how your false doctrine trips you up?
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts 17:30,31)
 
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GillDouglas

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OK. Then ALL MEN should be saved eventually, since God commands all men everywhere to repent. Is that your theory, because that would lead to universalism? Do you see how your false doctrine trips you up?
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts 17:30,31)
How convenient that you would leave out an important part of my post.
When God COMMANDS anything, it happens without question. Those He compels, He also commands and they will repent. That is His irresistible grace, given to some and all of those WILL be saved.
Not all are compelled or called.
 
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ladodgers6

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OK. Then ALL MEN should be saved eventually, since God commands all men everywhere to repent. Is that your theory, because that would lead to universalism? Do you see how your false doctrine trips you up?
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts 17:30,31)
Please provide the post where he stated this?
 
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Job8

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Please provide the post where he stated this?
Here's what Gill said: When God COMMANDS anything, it happens without question.
That is a blanket statement.


So now, since God commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT, then according to Gill all should repent and be saved. And that is consistent with Universalism.

BTW, God does not compel anyone to be saved, so that's the second false teaching coming from Gill.
 
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EmSw

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God says everyone follows the dictates of his evil heart, so then they could not obey all of His commands. So then they are, CURSED.

Wow! So all the OT people were cursed! Poor Moses, he never had a chance. Poor David, he lived for God in vain. God had cursed prophets write for Him. Heaven is going to be a lonely place. I don't think I like your idea of Heaven. To be cursed means to be abhorred and hated. Will there be abhorred and hated people in Heaven?

‘Thus says the Lord God of Israel: “Cursed is the man who does not obey the words of this covenant.

Who says obedience is not pertinent to salvation?

Deuteronomy 27
26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’

“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’

Anyone who attempts justification by following-observing the LAW is under a curse, because all break God's law.

It does not say, 'anyone who attempts justification by following/observing the LAW is under a curse'. No need for your interpretation.

Were there any justified in the OT? Were there any righteous?

Galatians 3:10
[ The Law Brings a Curse ] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Galatians 3:13
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Those cursed for hanging on a tree in the OT, were those who were criminals and guilty of committing a sin unto death. Besides here is what Deuteronomy 21:23 says about hanging on a tree -

And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

Did Jesus ever commit a sin worthy of death? Jesus NEVER committed any sin.

Those who committed a sin worthy of death, were put to death, and then hung on a tree.

Jesus' death matched neither condition mentioned in Deuteronomy.
 
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EmSw

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The Commandments has been fulfilled perfectly by Christ for those whom the Father has given to him to save.And its only by Christ's perfect righteousness to the Law,that is imputed to the Ungodly and received by Faith Alone apart from works,so that no one will boast.

If a man fulfilled the law perfectly, then he wasn't cursed.

How do you say Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly, yet say He was cursed?
 
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ladodgers6

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Here's what Gill said: When God COMMANDS anything, it happens without question.
That is a blanket statement.


So now, since God commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT, then according to Gill all should repent and be saved. And that is consistent with Universalism.

BTW, God does not compel anyone to be saved, so that's the second false teaching coming from Gill.
I understand,but you are not understanding,and confusing the concepts.Everyone is under the curse of the Law because of our sin.The first Adam broke the Covenant of Works (Law),through his one act of disobedience.Which bought death & sin upon us all.So God promised Adam & Eve a Second Adam;a Redeemer that would will save them from this condemnation,sin and death.By perfectly fulfilling this broken Covenant of Works through his one act of Obedience.Christ became a curse for us and killed in his flesh,and die once to defeat sin and death.

So the moral Law is written on everyone minds,so that they are without excuse,when judged for their transgressions.But Christ freed those whom the Father gave him to save.And its only these that will Believe & Repent because of God's Sovereign Grace;which is given to them as a gift apart from any works.And this promise that God made with Adam & Eve will come to pass,because its God's word,promise,oath,Covenant of Grace.
 
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ladodgers6

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If a man fulfilled the law perfectly, then he wasn't cursed.
Correct! But there cannot be a single blemish of sin.This person has to be absolutely perfect,without sin.But as Romans 3 explicitly states,that no one is without sin,no one does good! All have fallen short of the glory of God!

How do you say Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly, yet say He was cursed?
Because the Covenant of Works needs to be fulfilled to enter eschatological Glory! This is the will of the Father and the works he gave to his Son to do! And by fulfilling this Christ will merit God's justice through his Perfect Obedience to God's Holy Righteous Law.And in turn the Father will glorify his Son and receive a Kingdom and a People.

Matt 5
17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

And as far as being made a curse for us,can be found in 1 Cor. 5:21

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

In other word we receive Christ's righteousness through faith Alone apart from any works of ours.And Christ receives our sins.This is called a double imputation.
 
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Job8

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I understand,but you are not understanding,and confusing the concepts.
So let's clear up the confusion.
ALL ARE UNDER CONDEMNATION
Everyone is under the curse of the Law because of our sin.The first Adam broke the Covenant of Works (Law),through his one act of disobedience.Which bought death & sin upon us all.So God promised Adam & Eve a Second Adam;a Redeemer that would will save them from this condemnation,sin and death.

THEREFORE CHRIST TASTED DEATH FOR EVERY MAN
By perfectly fulfilling this broken Covenant of Works through his one act of Obedience.Christ became a curse for us and killed in his flesh,and die once to defeat sin and death.

ALL ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE
So the moral Law is written on everyone minds,so that they are without excuse,when judged for their transgressions.

BUT LIMITED ATONEMENT AS STATED BELOW FALSE
But Christ freed those whom the Father gave him to save. And its only these that will Believe & Repent because of God's Sovereign Grace;which is given to them as a gift apart from any works.

UNLIMITED ATONEMENT IN THE WORD OF GOD
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (Jn 1:29)
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 Jn 2:2)
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Jn 3:17)
 
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EmSw

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Correct! But there cannot be a single blemish of sin.This person has to be absolutely perfect,without sin.But as Romans 3 explicitly states,that no one is without sin,no one does good! All have fallen short of the glory of God!

You are putting every person in the OT under a curse. Maybe you can show us where Moses, David, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and other men of God were cursed. If I am not mistaken, they were all blessed.

Because the Covenant of Works needs to be fulfilled to enter eschatological Glory! This is the will of the Father and the works he gave to his Son to do! And by fulfilling this Christ will merit God's justice through his Perfect Obedience to God's Holy Righteous Law.And in turn the Father will glorify his Son and receive a Kingdom and a People.

You have just put every person in the OT under a curse. Therefore, none of them can enter His glory. How did Elijah enter His glory if he was cursed?

Perhaps you missed these verses which contradict your belief.

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both RIGHTEOUS before God, walking in ALL the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.


Perhaps you can explain how they were RIGHTEOUS (justified, clean) and how they walked in ALL the commandments blameless.
 
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ladodgers6

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So let's clear up the confusion.
ALL ARE UNDER CONDEMNATION
Yes all are under the curse of the Law.

THEREFORE CHRIST TASTED DEATH FOR EVERY MAN
No,only those who believe.

ALL ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE
Yes,because the Jews have the Law,and the Gentiles are a Law unto themselves;the moral law written on their minds,bearing witness.

BUT LIMITED ATONEMENT AS STATED BELOW FALSE
Though I am a convinced Classic Reformed Calvinist;not to be confused with Hyper-Calvinism,that I do not hold too.I will admit that the acronym TULIP is not the best to represent Classic Calvinism.I believe in Particular Atonement opposed too Limited Atonement,& I prefer Effectual Grace opposed too Irresistible Grace,just because what I prefer can present a better understanding to what Classical Calvinism teaches.So Particular Atonement is that Christ is saving those whom the Father gave him to redeem.

UNLIMITED ATONEMENT IN THE WORD OF GOD
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (Jn 1:29)
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 Jn 2:2)
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Jn 3:17)
Yes people of out every tribe,tongue,and nation.Not just for the Jews! But its for those who believe,the descendants of Abraham to which God made his Promise that he will save.
 
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ladodgers6

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You are putting every person in the OT under a curse. Maybe you can show us where Moses, David, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and other men of God were cursed. If I am not mistaken, they were all blessed.
Everyone from Adam and mankind are under the curse.This is why Christ had to come and fulfill what the first Adam wrecked!


You have just put every person in the OT under a curse. Therefore, none of them can enter His glory. How did Elijah enter His glory if he was cursed?
By God's Grace & Mercy!
Perhaps you missed these verses which contradict your belief.

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both RIGHTEOUS before God, walking in ALL the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.


Perhaps you can explain how they were RIGHTEOUS (justified, clean) and how they walked in ALL the commandments blameless.
So that I can response to this comment are you suggesting they were righteous then through the Law by their perfect Obedience to it?
 
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EmSw

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Everyone from Adam and mankind are under the curse. This is why Christ had to come and fulfill what the first Adam wrecked!

I would like to know where mankind is under a curse from Adam. I can show where the serpent was cursed (Gen. 3:14), the ground was cursed (Gan. 3:17), and Cain was cursed (Gen. 4:11). No where do I find mankind was cursed. Are you making this up? Does adding this confirm your belief?

You still haven't provided any passage which says Abraham, Moses, David, Ezekiel, Daniel, or Jeremiah were cursed. If they were cursed as you say, surely you can provide two or three witnesses to establish your word.

So that I can response to this comment are you suggesting they were righteous then through the Law by their perfect Obedience to it?

Read it yourself. They were blameless in walking in ALL the commandments. You are the one wanting to blame them for not keeping the law. If it says they were RIGHTEOUS in Luke, I will go with Luke rather than believe what you say. Luke says they were both RIGHTEOUS, walking in ALL the commandments blameless. I don't know how much clearer it can get.

So I would like to hear your response on how they walked in ALL the commandments blameless.
 
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Job8

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No,only those who believe.
It is a very serious matter when a Christian contradicts the Word of God. That is tantamount to calling God a liar (God forbid!). Did Christ taste death for EVERY MAN? Now please note very carefully what is stated in Scripture and believe it and repent (Heb 2:9):

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ' ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου

King James Bible
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

New American Standard Bible
But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

New International Version
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

English Standard Version
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

There is not a single translation which does not say that Christ tasted death for everyone or for every man. This is consistent with John 1:29, that the Lamb of God took away the sin of the world. So when Calvinists blatantly deny this, they oppose God. Beware of opposition to God! At the same time, all the dominoes of TULIP tumble down when this truth is recognized.
 
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ladodgers6

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I would like to know where mankind is under a curse from Adam. I can show where the serpent was cursed (Gen. 3:14), the ground was cursed (Gan. 3:17), and Cain was cursed (Gen. 4:11). No where do I find mankind was cursed. Are you making this up? Does adding this confirm your belief?
Are you at all familiar with Covenant Theology?

In Galatians Paul says,"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us..." Why? did Christ have to become a curse for us? I'll let you answer that.

You still haven't provided any passage which says Abraham, Moses, David, Ezekiel, Daniel, or Jeremiah were cursed. If they were cursed as you say, surely you can provide two or three witnesses to establish your word.
What does the Commandments reveal about sinners? Can a sinner be saved through these commandments by obeying them? Why? are sinners under a curse of the Law? Why? do sinners need a Savior?

In Romans 3 it reads,

No One Is Righteous

9What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;(does this statement exclude Abraham, Moses, David, Ezekiel, Daniel, or Jeremiah)or they do not need God to save them from their sins,because they are righteous or good enough to save themselves through perfect Obedience to God's Commandments!

11there is no one who understands;

there is no one who seeks God.

12All have turned away,

they have together become worthless;

there is no one who does good,

not even one.”b


13“Their throats are open graves;

their tongues practice deceit.”c

“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”d

14“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”e

15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16ruin and misery mark their ways,

17and the way of peace they do not know.”f

18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”g

And what does the Law make known to us? What does it increase?

19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Read it yourself. They were blameless in walking in ALL the commandments. You are the one wanting to blame them for not keeping the law. If it says they were RIGHTEOUS in Luke, I will go with Luke rather than believe what you say. Luke says they were both RIGHTEOUS, walking in ALL the commandments blameless. I don't know how much clearer it can get.

So I would like to hear your response on how they walked in ALL the commandments blameless.
They are righteous through Faith in Christ Alone! Not by the works of the Law! NO FLESH WILL BE JUSTIFIED THROUGH THE LAW! They were saved because they believe in God's Promise to Abraham,that he would send a SEED to redeem his people from their sins!
 
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ladodgers6

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It is a very serious matter when a Christian contradicts the Word of God. That is tantamount to calling God a liar (God forbid!). Did Christ taste death for EVERY MAN?
Before I respond to the rest of your post,I have a couple of question to ask you,so that I do not misrepresent your premise.

If Christ did TASTE the DEATH for mankind? Then why do people perish? If by Christ's death,propitiated the wrath of God for all mankind,then why do people perish? If Christ suffered so that we may live? Why do people perish? Christ did not make Salvation possible! Christ REDEEMED his people from their sins! This is the good news,that God justifies the ungodly,not because of something God foresaw something in us.But because of his Love & Mercy for his people! God's has a plan and his Son fulfills it and the Holy Spirit applies it!
 
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EmSw

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Are you at all familiar with Covenant Theology?

No. It that required to be saved?

In Galatians Paul says,"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us..." Why? did Christ have to become a curse for us? I'll let you answer that.

I don't believe He became a curse for us. Becoming a curse for someone does not make the obey the commandments.

For Paul's statement to be established, you need two or three witnesses. Care to produce them? I'll be waiting.

What does the Commandments reveal about sinners? Can a sinner be saved through these commandments by obeying them? Why? are sinners under a curse of the Law? Why? do sinners need a Savior?

In Romans 3 it reads,

No One Is Righteous

Of whom is David speaking in Psalm 37:25?

I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.


David saw the righteous. Was David just dreaming? Was he delusional? Zacharias and Elisabeth were righteous; Was Luke delusional also?

What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;(does this statement exclude Abraham, Moses, David, Ezekiel, Daniel, or Jeremiah)or they do not need God to save them from their sins,because they are righteous or good enough to save themselves through perfect Obedience to God's Commandments!

there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”b

13“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”c
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”d
14“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”e
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know.”f
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”g
And what does the Law make known to us? What does it increase?

Do you know where Paul got this?

Psalm53
1 The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God.


David is speaking of 'fools who have said in their heart', there is no God, and workers of iniquity. Did every person in the OT say in their heart there is no God?

Does everyone practice deceit? Is everyone swift to shed blood? Do all men have no fear of God?

Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

They are righteous through Faith in Christ Alone! Not by the works of the Law! NO FLESH WILL BE JUSTIFIED THROUGH THE LAW! They were saved because they believe in God's Promise to Abraham,that he would send a SEED to redeem his people from their sins!

Christ wasn't revealed at the time Luke wrote of Zacharias and Elisabeth; how can one put faith in something not revealed?

I've just shown you people were justified through the law.

Where does the Bible say people are saved by believing in God's promise to Abraham? You make up too much stuff for me to take you seriously.

If you can find it where people are saved by believing in God's promise to Abraham, could you please find two or more witnesses to establish it?
 
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Job8

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If Christ did TASTE the DEATH for mankind? Then why do people perish? If by Christ's death,propitiated the wrath of God for all mankind,then why do people perish?
How often does this have to be repeated? Here is the reason why people are damned (Mk 16:15,16): And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
If Christ suffered so that we may live? Why do people perish? Christ did not make Salvation possible! Christ REDEEMED his people from their sins! This is the good news,that God justifies the ungodly,not because of something God foresaw something in us.But because of his Love & Mercy for his people! God's has a plan and his Son fulfills it and the Holy Spirit applies it!
Again you are going off on tangents. Does God say that Christ died for every man? Are you going to continue opposing God in this matter? Never mind all the rest of what you have stated. One thing at a time. If Christ died for everyone, but you resist that truth, what does that mean in relation to (a) believing God, and (b) repenting when Scripture shows that you are in error? To say Christ did not make Salvation possible! is to make God a liar. That is an extremely serious sin. Calvinists must either take Scripture for what it says, or become enemies of the true Gospel. But there is a serious price for those oppose God's truth.
 
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ladodgers6

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No. It that required to be saved?
Do you not what to know God's Word?
I don't believe He became a curse for us. Becoming a curse for someone does not make the obey the commandments.
I beg to differ,because in Galatians,Paul explicitly states that Christ became a curse for us! This is the Gospel.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

The reason why Christ became a curse for us is,"so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles,so that we might receive the PROMISED SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH." Paul is lucid and concise here to make a contrast between the Law and the Gospel.One only condemns us and the other gives us life freely through a Promise which is received through Faith Alone apart from any works on our part!

For Paul's statement to be established, you need two or three witnesses. Care to produce them? I'll be waiting.
I don't know what you are asking here.Unless you mean that the Scriptures cannot be true unless they have 3 witnesses? i do hold the Covenant of Redemption where this Covenant Promise was made between the Godhead.


Of whom is David speaking in Psalm 37:25?

I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.


David saw the righteous. Was David just dreaming? Was he delusional? Zacharias and Elisabeth were righteous; Was Luke delusional also?
Okay I see that you think they were righteous through the Law,correct? Please then reconcile this passage to Romans 3,if you would? Because I do not deny they are declared righteous,but not through the Law but through faith Alone apart from works.Read Hebrews 11.
Do you know where Paul got this?

Psalm53
1 The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God.


David is speaking of 'fools who have said in their heart', there is no God, and workers of iniquity. Did every person in the OT say in their heart there is no God?
So you believe in Pelagianism that men are not evil,but good.And that they possess good qualities and can make a free-will decision apart from God's Grace? Because Romans 3 still states that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS or GOOD.So how can you deny this statement? There is no need to complicate this.
Does everyone practice deceit? Is everyone swift to shed blood? Do all men have no fear of God?
So then not all men need a Savior? Because Christ came only to heal the sick,not the Righteous!
Christ wasn't revealed at the time Luke wrote of Zacharias and Elisabeth; how can one put faith in something not revealed?
Excellent question.In God's Promise to Adam & Eve that he will send a seed that will crush the serpent's head!

Hebrews 11

By Faith

1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

4By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. 5By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. 6And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 7By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.9By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

17By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, 18of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 19He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. 20By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau. 21By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff. 22By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his bones.

23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. 24By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. 27By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. 28By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them.

29By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as on dry land, but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned. 30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. 31By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.

32And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— 33who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37They were stoned, they were sawn in two,a they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— 38of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

So its by Faith In God and trust in his Promises that he WILL provide a Redeemer to save his people from their sins.Nit by obeying the Law to earn God's justice to merit Salvation,but by Christ fulfilling the Law for us through his perfect Obedience.

I've just shown you people were justified through the law.
In Galatians 2,Paul says that NO FLESH will be justified through the Law." because by works of the law no one will be justified." (Galatians 2:16)

Only one person was justified through the Law,and that is Christ Jesus who came not to abolish the Law,but to fulfill it.
Where does the Bible say people are saved by believing in God's promise to Abraham? You make up too much stuff for me to take you seriously.
You are so quick to judge me.Swift to bring judgment upon me.Instead you should read,studying before making such comments.Because there is only one who can judge me,correct?

Abrahamic Promise

The Law and the Promise

15To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.22But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slaveg nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
If you can find it where people are saved by believing in God's promise to Abraham, could you please find two or more witnesses to establish it?
I can find it because its the Covenant of Grace,the Pure Gospel that Paul preached.

God’s Covenant with Abram Genesis 15

1After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.” 2But Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what will you give me, for I continuea childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3And Abram said, “Behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir.” 4And behold, the word of the LORD came to him: “This man shall not be your heir; your very own sonbshall be your heir.” 5And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” 6And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

7And he said to him, “I am the LORD who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to possess.” 8But he said, “O Lord GOD, how am I to know that I shall possess it?” 9He said to him, “Bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram three years old, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10And he brought him all these, cut them in half, and laid each half over against the other. But he did not cut the birds in half. 11And when birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.

12As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. And behold, dreadful and great darkness fell upon him. 13Then the LORD said to Abram, “Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. 14But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age. 16And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

17When the sun had gone down and it was dark, behold, a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces. 18On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I givec this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, 19the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, 20the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.”

This is the Redemptive-Historical Revelation of the Eschatological Adam to Redeem his people from their sins.This can be found throughout the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.
 
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