Calvinism, explained.

[Albion]

That's the assertion of Calvinists.

It's not mine, that's for sure--and yet you claimed that it is.

What's more, it's not the view (or "assertion") of "Calvinists" either.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

One's sin will condemn him; God is not to blame for a person's sin, is He?

 

[Thursday]

What's this "according to you" baloney? Where have I ever said that? Do you realize that bearing false witness about someone is a sin?

Calvinists always deny that they are Calvinists when it starts to get uncomfortable.

Tell me, what part does man play in his own salvation?

 

[Thursday]

One's sin will condemn him; God is not to blame for a person's sin, is He?

Of course not. But according to Calvinists, it doesn't matter what a man does. God chooses to save some with no regard for a persons actions on earth.

 

[Thursday]

It's not mine, that's for sure--and yet you claimed that it is.

What's more, it's not the view (or "assertion") of "Calvinists" either.

Deal with the reality of Calvinist dogma:

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will without any consideration of merit within the individual.

 

[Albion]

So, you're correcting the erroneous view you earlier insisted was the Calvinist belief. That's good, but what took you so long? The rest of us knew it all along.

 

[Thursday]

So, you're correcting the erroneous view you earlier insisted was the Calvinist belief. That's good, but what took you so long? The rest of us knew it all along.

I proved my point, as you know.

Calvinists never want to accept the consequences of their teachings.

 

[EmSw]

So, you're correcting the erroneous view you earlier insisted was the Calvinist belief. That's good, but what took you so long? The rest of us knew it all along.

This boils down to luck and chance that you are chosen.

 

[Thursday]

This boils down to luck and chance that you are chosen.

Exactly. And it is God's fault that the unlucky go to Hell according to Calvinist dogma.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Exactly. And it is God's fault that the unlucky go to Hell according to Calvinist dogma.

Still sin that makes one guilty. Not God's fault. Also, we've posted this verse a thousand times:

"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will," Eph 1:11

It's not an arbitrary choice. It's according to His purpose and the counsel of His will. You do know that He knows what He's doing, right?

 

[EmSw]

Still sin that makes one guilty. Not God's fault. Also, we've posted this verse a thousand times:

"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will," Eph 1:11

It's not an arbitrary choice. It's according to His purpose and the counsel of His will. You do know that He knows what He's doing, right?

We never said God takes a chance. It is chance on your part to be chosen, or more appropriately, luck.

Is Paul talking to all people? If not, then reprobates are the unlucky ones, they never had a chance.

 

[nobdysfool]

We never said God takes a chance. It is chance on your part to be chosen, or more appropriately, luck.

Is Paul talking to all people? If not, then reprobates are the unlucky ones, they never had a chance.

Given what sin is, and it's consequences, why do you think they deserve a chance?

 

[nobdysfool]

Calvinists always deny that they are Calvinists when it starts to get uncomfortable.

the disconfort is on your end. I am not the least bit uncomfortable. I am merely objecting in strong terms to your constant bearing false witness against fellow Christians, who you consider enemies. YOU are the one with the problem, dude, not me.

Tell me, what part does man play in his own salvation?

The only thing he does or can do is to respond to the Grace given by God. Man cannot initiate the process at all. God initiates, man responds.

 

[EmSw]

Given what sin is, and it's consequences, why do you think they deserve a chance?

Why do you deserve a chance? No one makes a choice without having some reason for doing so. NO ONE!

What was God's reason for choosing you? If you say no reason, then it's all arbitrary on God's part and luck for you.

 

[nobdysfool]

Why do you deserve a chance? No one makes a choice without having some reason for doing so. NO ONE!

What was God's reason for choosing you? If you say no reason, then it's all arbitrary on God's part and luck for you.

There is no such thing as luck. None of us deserve a thing. God has every right to have mercy on whom He will, and to harden those whom He will. And we have no say in that. To imply that anyone deserves salvation is to say that they have some quality in them that deserves saving, which is in essence making God a respecter of persons, which He is not, and saying that some are better than others, which denies clear teaching in Scripture.

ALL have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. What is the penalty for sin? Death. So all deserve to die. Therefore there is nothing within anyone worthy of salvation. Ergo, God did not choose whom He would save based on any quality within them, and certainly not any "foreseen faith", when the source of that faith is God Himself, and not the person. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God, who is Jesus. Faith is not present until they have a personal encounter with Jesus, via the gospel.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There is no such thing as luck. None of us deserve a thing. God has every right to have mercy on whom He will, and to harden those whom He will. And we have no say in that. To imply that anyone deserves salvation is to say that they have some quality in them that deserves saving, which is in essence making God a respecter of persons, which He is not, and saying that some are better than others, which denies clear teaching in Scripture.

ALL have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. What is the penalty for sin? Death. So all deserve to die. Therefore there is nothing within anyone worthy of salvation. Ergo, God did not choose whom He would save based on any quality within them, and certainly not any "foreseen faith", when the source of that faith is God Himself, and not the person. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God, who is Jesus. Faith is not present until they have a personal encounter with Jesus, via the gospel.

Excellent point. This is where the Arminian error begins. He sees man as deserving of salvation. He says things like, "everyone deserves a fair chance"; however, what every sinner, every enemy of the throne, every murderer of his brother deserves is the gallows tomorrow morning.

God's choosing to have mercy on some seems unjust until you understand what sin is and how holy God is. Most have no clue of either, so they come here and make absurd comments.

 

[EmSw]

There is no such thing as luck. None of us deserve a thing. God has every right to have mercy on whom He will, and to harden those whom He will. And we have no say in that. To imply that anyone deserves salvation is to say that they have some quality in them that deserves saving, which is in essence making God a respecter of persons, which He is not, and saying that some are better than others, which denies clear teaching in Scripture.

Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

God will show mercy to those who are merciful, and yes, you and I have a say in that.

Matthew 10
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.
30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

Yes, we are worth something to God. We have value in God's eyes; we do matter to Him.

Actually NF, if God predestines some to heaven and foreordains some to hell, then He is a respecter of persons.

ALL have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. What is the penalty for sin? Death. So all deserve to die. Therefore there is nothing within anyone worthy of salvation. Ergo, God did not choose whom He would save based on any quality within them, and certainly not any "foreseen faith", when the source of that faith is God Himself, and not the person. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God, who is Jesus. Faith is not present until they have a personal encounter with Jesus, via the gospel.

If any man has life within him, and all do, then it is a gift from God. Waking up each morning is a gift from God. Taking each breath is a gift from God. Seeing, talking, hearing, walking, writing, and any other physical action is a gift from God. God is Life Itself, and each man is given life from God. God gives each man a spirit within.

Malachi 2:15
Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit.

John 16:15
All that belongs to the Father is mine.

Everyone belongs to God; as such, Jesus said they are mine. To say there is no quality or worth in man is saying God values nothing of His. Is a man's body and spirit worthy of salvation? Since they belong to God, the answer is yes. Each man has worth in God's eyes, yes, more than the sparrows.

Do you consider anything which belongs to you as having no worth? If you have children, are they worthy to you? Does your wife have any worth to you? Are your eyes of any value to you? your ears? your tongue? your feet? your hands?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

God will show mercy to those who are merciful, and yes, you and I have a say in that.

Matthew 10
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.
30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

Yes, we are worth something to God. We have value in God's eyes; we do matter to Him.

Actually NF, if God predestines some to heaven and foreordains some to hell, then He is a respecter of persons.



If any man has life within him, and all do, then it is a gift from God. Waking up each morning is a gift from God. Taking each breath is a gift from God. Seeing, talking, hearing, walking, writing, and any other physical action is a gift from God. God is Life Itself, and each man is given life from God. God gives each man a spirit within.

Malachi 2:15
Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit.

John 16:15
All that belongs to the Father is mine.

Everyone belongs to God; as such, Jesus said they are mine. To say there is no quality or worth in man is saying God values nothing of His. Is a man's body and spirit worthy of salvation? Since they belong to God, the answer is yes. Each man has worth in God's eyes, yes, more than the sparrows.

Do you consider anything which belongs to you as having no worth? If you have children, are they worthy to you? Does your wife have any worth to you? Are your eyes of any value to you? your ears? your tongue? your feet? your hands?

All of those references are to God's elect, not everyone. Only His sheep hear His voice. He was not addressing every single person, just His own.

The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

"He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

 

[tulipbee]

 

[Thursday]

The only thing he does or can do is to respond to the Grace given by God. Man cannot initiate the process at all. God initiates, man responds.

Agreed.

Man chooses whether to respond with cooperation or rejection of God's grace.

Those who cooperate with God's grace will be saved.