Calvin quote

[BNR32FAN]

Which is the nature of all mankind without Christ.

In order to be in Christ you must first repent and believe. Repentance is not the result of being in Christ because repentance comes before being in Him.

 

[BNR32FAN]

In your fish example, every fish gets wings? Yes or no.

I didn’t do a fish example.

 

[redleghunter]

In order to be in Christ you must first repent and believe. Repentance is not the result of being in Christ because repentance comes before being in Him.

Where does repentance come from?

 

[redleghunter]

I didn’t do a fish example.

Then why did you answer a question not for you?

 

[redleghunter]

You obviously think that something is just just because God says so. Declarative morality.

You even think that to be punished for something I am unable to change is justice.

Let’s say you have the ability to change, does that make God just?

 

[Hammster]

That doesn’t mean we can’t do anything good in the flesh it means anything good we do is not pleasing to God because without Christ’s atonement we are stained with sin. This is why all our good deeds were filthy rags in His sight before we received Christ’s atonement but not they are pleasing to Him.

If it’s not pleasing to God, it’s not good.

 

[Hammster]

No it’s synergism. The calling is already there for everyone to accept. Pelagianism taught that we can earn salvation without Christ’s sacrifice and we could live a sinless life. That’s not even anywhere close to what I said.

No, he denied original sin and believed that man could do good apart from any work of God in him.

 

[dqhall]

Would you see yourself as Pelagian? Why or why not?

I do not want to get into splitting hairs.

An orchard laborer pruned a peach tree. A peach tree put out more branches than it needed. With too many branches and leaves, none of the branches get a full amount of sun. They all need sap and nutrients. It is not efficient. The pruner was trained to see what ones to cut off and what ones to keep. This was done to make the peach tree produce more peaches.

God will decide what to give and to whom to give it to.

 

[Hammster]

I do not want to get into splitting hairs.

An orchard laborer pruned a peach tree. A peach tree put out more branches than it needed. With too many branches and leaves, none of the branches get a full amount of sun. They all need sap and nutrients. It is not efficient. The pruner was trained to see what ones to cut off and what ones to keep. This was done to make the peach tree produce more peaches.

God will decide what to give and to whom to give it to.

Uh..okay.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes, He is just because its in His nature, not because He is God. The source of His justice is not in His power/superiority.

Therefore He cannot declare that something is just when it is not really just.

Just based on whose standards?

 

[redleghunter]

Sure, but it must be in their power not do to that sin.

You cannot say to a blond girl - "from now on, its a sin to be a blond girl" and then punish her for it. The real justice must have real basics.

Is being blonde sinful?

 

[faroukfarouk]

True. His sovereign purpose and arrangement. Romans 9:17

Why?
In order that God’s plan might stand. Romans 9:11
To display/make His patience, mercy, glory, power, and wrath known. Romans 9:22-23

Because
Who Am I to question His reason. Romans 9:20
He has all the right to do as He pleases. Romans 9:21

@gospels Some ppl seem sacred of the Scriptures expressing God's sovereignty, but by His grace I find them very assuring.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Is being blonde sinful?

The contingency might have been whether my wife had been to the hairdresser lately...
(I don't see much theology in the example, frankly...)

 

[redleghunter]

God knows it because you choose it. It's not God knows it therefore you choose it.

When does God choose?

 

[redleghunter]

The contingency might have been whether my wife had been to the hairdresser lately...
(I don't see much theology in the example, frankly...)

We can speak of foresight using the hair example. My barber a week ago took off more than normal. Next day the barber shops and salons were closed.

 

[redleghunter]

Sin is not the real issue here. Everyone has sinned. The issue is can someone repent and believe if they have not been granted grace by God? Sin is completely irrelevant at this point because anyone who does not repent and believe in Christ will burn in the lake of fire because all have sinned.

Why is sin irrelevant if we are to repent?

 

[faroukfarouk]

We can speak of foresight using the hair example. My barber a week ago took off more than normal. Next day the barber shops and salons were closed.

I guess there were folk from Cantor Fitzgerald, etc. in the Twin Towers who for some reason took an early vacation starting from 9/10...

 

[redleghunter]

So why you think that:

a) the nature of fish is to swim. To punish it for it is not just

b) the nature of man is to sin. To punish him for it is just

So man should not be punished for sin?

Your comparison fails on the premises. Fish swimming is what God calls good. Meaning he created the fish to swim and is pleased when they swim.

Mankind was not created to sin. God’s design for mankind was to be stewards of His creation and obey Him.

So God does not punish those who obey. That much is quite clear.

God does and has proclaimed He will punish disobedience.

 

[redleghunter]

I guess there were folk from Cantor Fitzgerald, etc. in the Twin Towers who for some reason took an early vacation starting from 9/10...

And my best friend who left a meeting early that day.

 

[redleghunter]

He isn't doomed from the womb. What he is choosing in life determines what God knows.

Well that statement above is Open Theism.