Calvin quote

[Hammster]

He can’t be just if they were incapable of complying with His commandments.

What if, by nature, they were unwilling?

 

[Hammster]

I agree!

Then you might want to modify your earlier statement.

 

[zoidar]

Yes, you are. You are saying that God knows something because He took in knowledge that He didn’t have before. Bob determines what God knows.

Bob determines what God knew before time.

 

[Hammster]

Bob determines what God knew before time.

Which means God learned.

 

[solid_core]

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:3

The reprobate’s nature is living by the lusts of the flesh, etc. They are children of wrath. It does not exclude choosing.

How do you define the term "nature" itself? What is it?

 

[zoidar]

Which means God learned.

I don't think so, but will sleep on it. G'night!

Christ love,
Peter

 

[BNR32FAN]

What if, by nature, they were unwilling?

That’s what I’ve been saying brother. Because of their stubbornness and unrepentant heart they are storing up the righteous wrath of God. They have the ability to repent and God will grant them grace if they repent.

 

[Hammster]

How do you define the term "nature" itself? What is it?

Whatever we desire to do at any given moment. In the flesh, it’s sin. In the Spirit, it’s for God’s glory. And we know that we cannot please God in the flesh.

 

[Hammster]

That’s what I’ve been saying brother. Because of their stubbornness and unrepentant heart they are storing up the righteous wrath of God. They have the ability to repent and God will grant them grace if they repent.

That sounds an awful lot like Pelagianism.

 

[PaulCyp1]

This statement contradicts everything Jesus Christ taught, as do most of Calvin's teachings.

 

[solid_core]

Whatever we desire to do at any given moment.

So our nature is constantly changing?

When somebody desires to do something good, his nature is good in that moment and when the same person desires to do something evil, his nature is evil in that moment?

 

[solid_core]

Its time to sleep in my timezone. So I will respond later.

 

[Hammster]

So our nature is constantly changing?

No. Our nature apart from regeneration will act sinfully in any given situation. I guess we could say it’s what makes us tick. So in the flesh, it’s sin. We have no desire to please God or glorify God. With our new nature, we do have the desire to please God and glorify God.

 

[Hammster]

This statement contradicts everything Jesus Christ taught, as do most of Calvin's teachings.

How does it contradict everything Christ taught?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Whatever we desire to do at any given moment. In the flesh, it’s sin. In the Spirit, it’s for God’s glory. And we know that we cannot please God in the flesh.

That doesn’t mean we can’t do anything good in the flesh it means anything good we do is not pleasing to God because without Christ’s atonement we are stained with sin. This is why all our good deeds were filthy rags in His sight before we received Christ’s atonement but not they are pleasing to Him.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That sounds an awful lot like Pelagianism.

No it’s synergism. The calling is already there for everyone to accept. Pelagianism taught that we can earn salvation without Christ’s sacrifice and we could live a sinless life. That’s not even anywhere close to what I said.

 

[redleghunter]

Sure, the wings would become part of its new nature. And the willful refusal to use them could be justly punished.

Why would wings be given to someone in rebellion?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why would wings be given to someone in rebellion?

So that God could justify their punishment on judgement day. John 15:6 Anyone who doesn’t abide in Me will be cast away to wither and cast in the fire to be burned. Compare this to John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless The Father draws him. Why would The Father allow people whom He knows will not abide in Christ to come to Him?

 

[redleghunter]

I absolutely agree. That’s why I don’t believe that He is the cause of peoples condemnation. It is the result of their own stubbornness and unwillingness to repent as Paul said in Romans 2:4-5.

Which is the nature of all mankind without Christ.

 

[redleghunter]

So that God could justify their punishment on judgement day. John 15:6 Anyone who doesn’t abide in Me will be cast away to wither and cast in the fire to be burned. Compare this to John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless The Father draws him. Why would The Father allow people whom He knows will not abide in Christ to come to Him?

In your fish example, every fish gets wings? Yes or no.