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Featured By Grace Through Faith

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by StevenBelievin, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Colossians 2:16 ¶Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    Hebrews 10:1 ¶For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things . . .

    Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
    11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come . . .

    -

    Colossians 2:16-17 means under the New Covenant all foods are in themselves okay for all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, to eat. For it means Christians shouldn't let anyone judge them regarding what meat they eat (Colossians 2:16), because the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was a mere shadow of things to come (Colossians 2:17, Hebrews 10:1, Hebrews 9:10-11), and it was blotted out by Jesus Christ on the Cross (Colossians 2:14-17).

    Colossians 2:16-17 also means Christians aren't to judge each other over not keeping the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic sabbaths, which included the one-day-a-week, resting-from-work sabbath (Exodus 31:13-15). Under the New Covenant, Christians don't need to esteem only one day of the week, but can esteem every day of the week (Romans 14:5). For they're to rest from their own works, as in those done apart from abiding in Jesus Christ (John 15:4-5), every day of the week (Hebrews 4:3,10, Luke 9:23, Matthew 11:28-30).
     
  2. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note the apostle Paul is giving a teaching of God when he says:

    1 Timothy 4:4 . . . every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
    5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

    It's sometimes claimed we shouldn't eat animals which were "unclean" under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Leviticus 11) because they're detrimental to health. But where does it say they were "unclean" because they're detrimental to health? Even pork isn't detrimental to health when it's cooked properly. That's why there are so many healthy old people in China, a nation which thrives on properly-cooked pork. So the dietary restrictions of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law weren't for health purposes, but must have been symbolic, just as, for example, Acts 10:11-15 wasn't for health purposes, but was symbolic (Acts 10:28), and just as the clothing restrictions and hair-cutting restrictions of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law weren't for health purposes, but must have been symbolic.

    For people can live long and healthy lives wearing clothing made of mixed fibers (such as cotton/nylon blends), even though this goes against the letter of Deuteronomy 22:11. And people can live long and healthy lives without having to sew tassels and a blue ribbon along the edges of all their clothes, even though this goes against the letter of Numbers 15:38. And people can live long and healthy lives without having to wear only white clothing, and without having to cover their hair with oil, even though this goes against the letter of Ecclesiastes 9:8. And people can live long and healthy lives shaving the sides of their heads and beards, even though this goes against the letter of Leviticus 19:27.

    Deuteronomy 25:4 is an example of how some of the Old Covenant Mosaic commandments were symbolic (1 Corinthians 9:9-11).
     
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    The idea of "clean" and "unclean" in the Old Testament wasn't derived from whether or not something was to be eaten. For people and inedible objects could also be "clean" or "unclean" (Leviticus 11:24-40). Instead, it was derived from whether or not something (whether human, animal or object) was considered by God in Old Testament times to be holy/not guilty or unholy/guilty (Leviticus 11:43-47, Leviticus 5:2b-3, Leviticus 10:10).

    Also, someone was made "unclean" simply by touching something "unclean" (Leviticus 11:26). They didn't have to eat it.

    Also, something can be unclean for thousands of years and then all of a sudden be clean. For:

    Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself. . .

    Mark 7:18 . . . whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him . . .

    Jesus Christ could also miraculously make an "unclean" person clean (Mark 1:40-42).

    And even under the Old Covenant, an "unclean" person didn't have to be "unclean" forever (Leviticus 17:15b). So why would foods have to be "unclean" forever?
     
  4. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    The historical account of the forbidding of Christian Gentiles to eat certain foods at the time of Acts 15:29 isn't in line with the Biblical teachings which show under the New Covenant all foods are in themselves okay for all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, to eat (1 Timothy 4:4-5, Romans 14:14,20, Mark 7:18-19; 1 Corinthians 10:25-30, Colossians 2:16-17, Hebrews 9:10). But it may have seemed good to the Holy Spirit (Acts 15:28) to allow Acts 15:29 as an only-temporary compromise among the Church leaders at that time, so a schism wouldn't arise within the Church (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:25) so shortly after its inception, between those leaders who at that time still (mistakenly) wanted to continue keeping the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Acts 15:21, Acts 21:20b) and those leaders who knew the truth that all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, shouldn't try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Acts 15:10, Romans 7:6, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 2:11-21; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 7:18-19, Hebrews 10:9b).
     
  5. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Wow, don't tell me you've never read this.

    Galatians 5:2-4.
    2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace
     
  6. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    You said this, "If you observe the Old Covenant you are converting to Judaism and Christ is of no benefit to you. Simple as that."

    Unbelievable. So if I obey God's law and do not kill, I am severed from Christ? If I don't steal and lie, I am cut off from Christ?

    Acts 16
    1 Then he came to Derbe and Lystra. And behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek.
    2 He was well spoken of by the brethren who were at Lystra and Iconium.
    3 Paul wanted to have him go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek.


    So Paul severed Timothy from Christ? Poor Timothy! He never had a chance. Paul did him in.
     
  7. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    A couple of things. Are you saying the HS compromises? I've never heard that.

    Also, would you go to a satanic ritual which is offering goats to satan, and eat of that meat?

    Which leaders knew that all Christians shouldn't try to keep the letter of the law? Surely it wasn't Paul.

    Acts 24
    13 Nor can they prove the things of which they now accuse me.
    14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.


    Paul believed all things written in the law. He surely believed in circumcision. And for sure Paul believed these things in the law -

    Exodus 20:6
    but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

    Leviticus 22:31
    Therefore you shall keep My commandments, and perform them: I am the Lord.

    Deuteronomy 8:6
    Therefore you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to fear Him.

    Deuteronomy 8:11
    “Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments, His judgments, and His statutes which I command you today,

    Deuteronomy 13:4
    You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.

    Plus many more things are written in the law about keeping His commandments. And from Paul's own lips, he believed all the things written in the law. That would include eating unclean meat, wouldn't you think?
     
  8. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
     
  9. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    Have you transgressed any of the laws? If so, you, as a guilty person are trying to show me how you are a transgressor. Maybe we should find out what the law of liberty is, and then we will know the true story.

    James 1
    21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

    22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
    23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
    24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
    25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.


    From this what do you get from the law of liberty? Is it not a doer, and not just a hearer? A doer of what you might say. Read verse 21; it says lay aside all filthiness and wickedness, and receive the implanted word with meekness, which is able to save your soul.

    So, we find it's a doer of the word, that is, those who lay aside all filthiness and wickedness and receive the word, that is saved. This is the perfect law of liberty.
     
  10. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    You can't just not kill. You have to observe all 633 mitzvot. Perfectly.
     
  11. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Actually the law of liberty is like freeform dancing. There aren't fixed steps. You gotta wing it.

    All you gotta do is have faith.

    Unfortunately faith is always mistranslated. In the Ancient Near East faith meant being loyal.

    So sometimes faith means obeying God when He says sacrifice your son.

    Sometimes it means stab your countrymen in the back by hiding enemy spies in your house.

    Or loving your family less than God.

    Or helping your Master kill Himself.

    I hope you get my meaning. What it means being loyal to Christ. Having His interests at heart. Respecting His principles.

    Matthew 18:34
    34But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

    Matthew 16:23
    23And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  12. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    Are you a liar? If you are a liar, why should we listen to anything you say? If you are a liar, then you don't love God, nor your neighbor. So, I take you hate everyone on this board. Since you are a liar, you must be guilty of killing also. If you are married, does your spouse know you are an adulterer?

    How far do you want to take your belief?
     
  13. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    So I say, why not just eat, drink, and be merry? Why not just ad lib everything you do? If murder seems right to you, why not do it and have no remorse? If my words offend you, why not stab me in the back?

    Personally, if that's how you live life, I would be afraid to be around you.
     
  14. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    In a heartbeat if it served Christ.
     
  15. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    Really? You would stab me if it served Christ?
     
  16. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    The law of liberty is the only law in the New Covenant. Given to the body of Christ the true vine. Consisting of both Jew (native branch, Jesus was a Jew too) and Gentile (grafted branch).
     
  17. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    I got Rahab's poster stuck on mah ceilin'

    Go Wildcats!
     
  18. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    So, is your law of liberty having the freedom to stab people if you wish?
     
  19. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Worked for Rahab. Nuthins changed.
     
  20. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    Is she nude, or does she have clothes on? :sorry:
     
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