Bruce Jenner

[Patchworks]

He claimed to be a conservative Christian.

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of heaven--only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

So too do his step daughters. Think about their public image for a minute. Including the one that has had three children out of wedlock, and the one who set them all off on careers after she sold herself in a porno.

I think Jenner is terribly disturbed. And I'd hope he'd hold off on doing anything drastic until the investigation into the vehicle accident he was in recently clears him of any possible vehicular manslaughter charges.

The Kardashians are so pathetic as a shipwreck of 15 minutes gone afoul that I'd wonder if all of this isn't something they're exploiting for the ratings.
After the Sawyer interview all the Kardashians that cared to comment on their social media accounts, and the Jenner's too, parroted one transparent word in describing Jenner's interview and mental health; hero.

He's at least delusional thinking he's going to be the one to change the world coming out this way. He's not a hero. He's clearly ill in some way.

Anyone watch the interview? Notice how his eyes were off when he blinked? They didn't blink like a normally healthy person does.

It would be great if instead of carving up people who claim deep inside there's the opposite gender hiding and waiting to be discovered with a scalpel, drug cocktails and implants, and instead gave those who are trans-afflicted a hormone cocktail that supplemented what was missing in their natural physiological body chemistry.

Even a PET scan would show something. But instead doctors abdicate the harm none axiom and cut up the mentally ill. Who are never going to be that gender they 'think' they are.

That was the keyword Jenner kept using in his interview. He thinks he's a woman. It's in his mind, it's in his soul. Well, he's wrong there. His soul isn't female.
But that he feels female in his mind given his body chemistry produced a male body, he's mentally ill.
He should be treated. Not enabled in self mutilation.

He sounded like he was under the influence as the interview went on.

Tragedy. An Olympian made cuckold by a battleaxe wife and a group of malignant narcissistic step daughters now thinks he's female. "I've got the story!"
Yes Mr. Jenner you do. And it's a Shakespearean tragedy.

The recent media coverage of Bruce Jenner has revealed that he claims to be a Christian. Some might dispute his claim. However, In an age where Satan has accomplished so much, I do not think we should be surprised to see what many might consider "walking wounded" on the Christian battlefield.

Consider a home where a small boy grows up hungry for his father's attention. Instead he finds his fathers stack of pornography and starts to think that if he looked like the pictures, he might finally obtain his father's love. As the child grows and incorporates this thinking into moments of stimulation, he may come to think that he really is female in some way.

The National Institutes for Health (who have every political reason to promote the transsexual ideology) advise against surgery for the reason of such a high incidence of suicide. This would seem to indicate that something other than transsexualism is actually going on.

There are many conditions that come to exists because of a world that is designed by Satan to destroy families and oppose Christianity. As Christians we should be careful not to shoot our own wounded, but to show compassion for those who have been "wounded".

 

[Cute Tink]

It would be great if instead of carving up people who claim deep inside there's the opposite gender hiding and waiting to be discovered with a scalpel, drug cocktails and implants, and instead gave those who are trans-afflicted a hormone cocktail that supplemented what was missing in their natural physiological body chemistry.

Even a PET scan would show something. But instead doctors abdicate the harm none axiom and cut up the mentally ill. Who are never going to be that gender they 'think' they are.

I'm just going to throw out there that you aren't too up on the research into the causes of gender dysphoria.

 

[StephanieSomer]

That's because I appreciate aesthetics. The physical beauty of Halle Berry is as much a good to me as the intellectual brilliance of a smart, overweight, "ugly" woman.

You have your religion and I have my religion. Each person constructs their own religion. But I don't try to ram my religion down the throats of others. Ergo, I have some libertarian sympathies although I'm not a libertarian. I'm pretty fiscally liberal. Too much so for a libertarian. But in my religion there is a "season" and time for things. Youth has it's benefits, and after the passage of so much time it may well be time to lay to bed childish fantasies one has always had since their youth. An old man transitioning to look like a woman is one of them. The aesthetics are unfavorable.

Plus, I'm a man with penis and testicles, to be blunt (and honest) about it. And I can appreciate a youthful, good looking, sexy transsexual born male. Far more so than I can an "old bag" of a "woman" that was until recently an old man.

I don't care if that is biased. None of you feminists ever cared nor ever conceived of offering an apology for your blatant, evangelical-like, biased prejudice against mulatto and black males laboring in blue collar work, or in low paying jobs. You pat yourselves on your backs for your prejudices and biases. So, I'm not apologizing for my biases and aesthetic biases.

I'm not a feminist, for one. Second, your race is not an issue with me. TBH, I find mulattos quite attractive. Blue collar work? Done it all my life. Still do. I'm pretty good at what I do, (cabinetmaker/mill mechanic), but my salary still isn't impressive. I live paycheck to paycheck like most of my neighbors. In fact, I live in one of those lower middle class neighborhoods where all the houses look the same, and are less than 900 sq ft. What bias have I ever shown you? What bias have you ever shown me?

 

[StephanieSomer]

I'm a biology major. I'm aware of genotype and phenotype. Bruce Jenner is biologically male and his phenotype was male as well. His phenotype is that of a white person, too, which is what illicits in the racist United States soooooooo much sympathy for him.

Bruce Jenner is no better and no worse than any of the millions of crack addicted black men in the USA.

Go sell your Eugenics and racism to someone else.

Bye.

The point I was addressing was your assertion that surgery would not change Jenner's sex. In truth, it can. It won't change the genotype. But, it WILL change the phenotype.


Racism?? Trust me, I am no racist.

 

[Armoured]

Agreed. However because of the particular issue he is useful to certain people therefore he is being used as opposed to helped.

Define "helped"?

 

[sdmsanjose]

By Patchworks
He claimed to be a conservative Christian.

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of heaven--only the one which does the will of my Father in heaven.

So too do his step daughters. Think about their public image for a minute. Including the one that has had three children out of wedlock, and the one who set them all off on careers after she sold herself in a porno.
Tragedy. An Olympian made cuckold by a battleaxe wife and a group of malignant narcissistic step daughters now thinks he's female. "I've got the story!"
Yes Mr. Jenner you do. And it's a Shakespearean tragedy.

Patchworks, it is obvious that you do not feel that Bruce is a person that will enter into the kingdom of God. The bible can be used to judge people according to the law or you can use the main theme of the Bible which is for you to love your neighbor. You have judged Bruce because he wants to wear a dress and look like and act like a female. In addition, you throw in his step daughters and ex-wife lives to give your judgement credibility. Do you judge people by what other people do? What specific sin do you judge Bruce on?

Since you posted a scripture that you think backs up your judgment how do you interpret the scriptures below:

James 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

John 8:7
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”


Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”



Is wanting to dress and act like a woman a sin? I do know that the Pharisees loved t judge others and think that they did not sin but Jesus has some strong words of rebuke for those self-righteous hypocrites.

In contrast to the Pharisees, I also know that Jesus would rather hang out with the humble, the weak, the downtrodden, those that are heavy burdened, the lowly on spirit even if they may have been sinners. I think that Bruce is lowly in spirit and downtrodden. It sure seems that Bruce’s children love him and they say that Bruce loved them also.


IF Bruce‘s actions of wanting to wear a dress and act like a woman are a sin (not sure on that) then the Bible is pretty clear what those that are spiritual should do. The spiritual people are to restore him in a spirit of gentleness; see Galatians 6:1 reprinted below. Nowhere does it say that we are to judge him as not worthy to enter to the kingdom of heaven.

Galatians 6:1
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I haven't watched the interview, but I heard positive things about it.

Jenner has a difficult time in the future. Transition is a difficult enough process without having the entire world watching for updates.

Yes I got to see it today. I thought it was really good and it should how Jenner struggled since he was a kid. Just like the guy I knew. I have so much more respect for Jenner for coming out. It's great to see his kids supporting him. I hope to watch it again, since I watched at my cousin house. The kids ruined some of it, with their noise. So did my cousin and her boyfriend with their arguing. I wish I had recording on my cable. The main shock to me is Jenner was so tough looking an into a lot of guy thing. But when I think about it. I'm like to get into some things men are into.

 

[Cute Tink]

Yes I got to see it today. I thought it was really good and it should how Jenner struggled since he was a kid. Just like the guy I knew. I have so much more respect for Jenner for coming out. It's great to see his kids supporting him. I hope to watch it again, since I watched at my cousin house. The kids ruined some of it, with their noise. So did my cousin and her boyfriend with their arguing. I wish I had recording on my cable. The main shock to me is Jenner was so tough looking an into a lot of guy thing. But when I think about it. I'm like to get into some things men are into.

I watched it last night. I connected with much more of her story than I thought I would. I cried a bit a few times watching it because of that.

I wasn't prepared for the videos of the beatings that they showed or the suicide talk. I should have expected it, but I didn't think they were going there.

I'm really glad her family is behind her. Family support means a lot to people.

 

[Cearbhall]

The recent media coverage of Bruce Jenner has revealed that he claims to be a Christian. Some might dispute his claim. However, In an age where Satan has accomplished so much, I do not think we should be surprised to see what many might consider "walking wounded" on the Christian battlefield.

I wasn't aware that the hormone levels you receive during fetal development determine your religion. Oy vey. Please do some research.

It does kind of smash some of the stereotypes they feed their audience though. Not sure how they will balance that. (shrugs) maybe ignore it?

Hormone levels don't determine a person's political affiliation, either, so...I'm not seeing the contradiction here.

 

[Red Fox]

sdmsanjose, I tried to quote your post, but couldn't, all I wanted to say was great response.

 

[Cearbhall]

April is Autism Awareness month, yet all the networks seem to want to discuss is Jenner. He doesn't illicit any sympathy, at least from me, as his story is sad as opposed to compelling. As the father of an autistic son I know autistic children face greater challenges than this guy.

My sympathies to your son, but I can't support such comparisons and trivializing the challenges that other people face, especially without having equal and intimate knowledge of them. I'm not sure why you're pitting the two groups against one another. Trans* people also have monumental struggles in society. He's the highest profile person to come out as trans*. His story is compelling for many, many people. I would bet that autistic trans* people face a unique set of challenges and are also grateful that's he come out.

 

[Patchworks]

I'm just going to throw out there that you aren't too up on the research into the causes of gender dysphoria.

Why would anyone need to be when they listen to someone who's suffering it speak as to where it comes from.

In his mind he's a woman.
One day society will realize it's best to treat mental illness rather than carve up a person so as to get to the other sex they claim is hidden beneath the layers.

 

[Armoured]

Why would anyone need to be when they listen to someone who's suffering it speak as to where it comes from.

In his mind he's a woman.
One day society will realize it's best to treat mental illness rather than carve up a person so as to get to the other sex they claim is hidden beneath the layers.

Well gee, the doctors seem to think the best way to treat gender dysphoria is reassignment surgery. You think maybe they've looked into it a little more than you, maybe?

 

[Patchworks]

Well gee, the doctors seem to think the best way to treat gender dysphoria is reassignment surgery. You think maybe they've looked into it a little more than you, maybe?

Well, gee, Christians know God doesn't make mistakes.

 

[Armoured]

Well, gee, Christians know God doesn't make mistakes.

Oh. So you don't support any sort of corrective surgery, I take it?

God doesn't make mistakes. Genetics does, however.

 

[Cute Tink]

Why would anyone need to be when they listen to someone who's suffering it speak as to where it comes from.

In his mind he's a woman.
One day society will realize it's best to treat mental illness rather than carve up a person so as to get to the other sex they claim is hidden beneath the layers.

They tried that. It failed. Do you have any other options?

For the record, it is recognized as not being a mental illness now. There is evidence that it is a biological condition.

Well, gee, Christians know God doesn't make mistakes.

Cleft lip, intersex people, people born dead, born without brains, conjoined twins...

I'm not saying God makes mistakes, but nature does. Reproduction is not a perfect process.

 

[Sistrin]

He's the highest profile person to come out as trans*. His story is compelling for many, many people.

He is mentally ill and needs treatment for such as opposed to being pandered to by people attempting to use his story to insist someone else is either sick, bigoted, or evil.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and Patchworks has a point. Christians understand that in order to accept the existence of God and that God attempts to positively influence our lives we have no choice but to acknowledge the existence of satan and his designs on man. Atheist accept neither but that is their problem. Someone born male claiming to be female isn't someone to be pitied and pandered to and placated with platitudes and surgery and then held up to society as some sort of hero. They are someone in need of help, both mental and spiritual.

And now I will be savaged for making this comment, but this is Christian Forums and not the Dawkins dot Net sewing circle, and the truth is Christ could help Jenner far more effectively than any progressive spewing faux sympathy and promoting an agenda.

One day society will realize it's best to treat mental illness rather than carve up a person so as to get to the other sex they claim is hidden beneath the layers.

Until society at large undergoes a paradigm shift I wouldn't count on it, but I agree with your point.

 

[Cute Tink]

He is mentally ill and needs treatment for such as opposed to being pandered to by people attempting to use his story to insist someone else is either sick, bigoted, or evil.

As noted above, the people who study and actually work with trans people recognize that it's not a mental illness and they know what treatment works and what doesn't.

If you think differently, I'd love to hear your evidence that you know better than those who deal with this subject on a day-to-day basis.

 

[Cearbhall]

He is mentally ill and needs treatment for such as opposed to being pandered to by people attempting to use his story to insist someone else is either sick, bigoted, or evil.

There's no scientific evidence of this, and you are not qualified to make this diagnosis. There's no need to perpetuate a moral panic about something that we're understanding more and more every day.

Gender dysphoria can be extremely distressing, but it's not a mental illness in the way that you mean it. There's no chemical imbalance. It's a result of the levels of hormones that were present during the development of the nervous system during pregnancy. It's nothing that requires treatment. There's no physiological need for a person's gender (brain) to match up with the genitals and chromosomes, which is why the process hasn't been perfected through natural selection. It's actually quite fascinating. I recommend that you do some reading about it.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Well, gee, Christians know God doesn't make mistakes.

True. He doesn't. He makes children with cleft palates, no legs, no arms, and siamese twins, among a lot of other physical issues. They aren't "mistakes". He intended them to be born that way. But, do we surgically modify their bodies to allow them a more comfortable life?