BREXIT: Revocation

[Daniel C]

So now we have established there are no benefits for Britain to remain in the EU from a Christian perspective and I have highlighted costs, can I get an Amen from fellow Christians here on leaving the EU?

 

[mindlight]

At the moment the Democratic mandate is for remain. Unfortunately the remain vote is split between parties but their share of the vote is higher than the Brexit party which will win more seats.

 

[Francis Drake]

Lib Dems and Greens and Nationalist parties who all oppose BREXIT are outperforming the proBREXIT parties. Hope the trend continues. If it does BREXIT will not have a democratic mandate any more and there will need to be a second referendum

The UK’s European elections 2019 - BBC News

Hohoho.
What are you smoking to come up with that fantasy?

I've watched your pro EU posts for weeks, and you just don't get it do you. You are just preaching your message in an echo chamber, happy to hear the comforting replies.

The truth is that voters in the UK, and across the EU despise the monolithic dead hand of EU bureaucracy that you constantly defend.
You lot are in for a thrashing before the night is out.

And as for your LibDems, their apparent success is a false message.
Since the 90s, I have been campaigning on the streets to get the UK out of the EU. Again and again I find people make false assumptions about the LibDems.
Countless people have told me that they are sick to death of what they see from both sides in Parliament. They won't vote, or if they do, they'll take what they falsely perceive as the middle ground and vote LibDem!

Many are shocked to find that the LibDems have the most pro EU manifesto of all parties.

Voters are not actually flocking towards the LibDems, they are running away from the Tories and Labour, the primary actors they see and hear in the media.

When these misled voters learn the true nature of the LibDems, they will abandon them at the first opportunity, the coming general election.

 

[mindlight]

Hohoho.
What are you smoking to come up with that fantasy?

I've watched your pro EU posts for weeks, and you just don't get it do you. You are just preaching your message in an echo chamber, happy to hear the comforting replies.

The truth is that voters in the UK, and across the EU despise the monolithic dead hand of EU bureaucracy that you constantly defend.
You lot are in for a thrashing before the night is out.

And as for your LibDems, their apparent success is a false message.
Since the 90s, I have been campaigning on the streets to get the UK out of the EU. Again and again I find people make false assumptions about the LibDems.
Countless people have told me that they are sick to death of what they see from both sides in Parliament. They won't vote, or if they do, they'll take what they falsely perceive as the middle ground and vote LibDem!

Many are shocked to find that the LibDems have the most pro EU manifesto of all parties.

Voters are not actually flocking towards the LibDems, they are running away from the Tories and Labour, the primary actors they see and hear in the media.

When these misled voters learn the true nature of the LibDems, they will abandon them at the first opportunity, the coming general election.

This EU election is a one issue vote in the UK. It is all about BREXIT. Fact is add the % of votes for the Lib Dems and Greens together and they have more votes than the BREXIT party. People are not voting for Labour or the Tories cause they have made a complete hash of BREXIT and are not presenting clear positions. Those who voted Lib Dem or Green are clearly voting for a remain party

The UK’s European elections 2019 - BBC News

 

[Daniel C]

The EU=Anti Christian
Person supports the EU=Anti Christian


Therefore a person who votes or supports for Britain to be ruled by an anti Christian system= Non-Christian

 

[mindlight]

The EU=Anti Christian
Person supports the EU=Anti Christian


Therefore a person who votes or supports for Britain to be ruled by an anti Christian system= Non-Christian

Are you trying to get yourself reported. I would edit that post if I were you.

Fact is that most German Christians I know think it is Christian to care for those running from oppression and war. While many of those who are voting against the EU are actually racists who do not like coloured people in their swimming pools.

You are clearly completely ignorant of European freedoms regarding religion and free speech and though I have tried to explain to you the actual position of for example the German constitution you have either not understood it or ignored it.

It is a more Christian position to work with other churches in Europe to deal with the problems of secularism, immigration and indeed local preferences on governance. Simply running away is not going to work, is very poor stewardship, represents a selfish approach to national politics that is unrighteous, divisive and destabilising.

 

[Arcangl86]

It's simple, is the EU project Christ centred in its motive or not?

Or to break it down to costs and benefits,how does Britain being involved in the EU in its current state benefit Christian people?

Consider these things.I think the intake of a large amount (million) of active non-believers (muslims) into Germany by merkel, making them citizens and then giving them free movement into Britain is fundamentally against Christ.And we have no say over it,so we put up with it and pay the cost or change it and move to a Christ friendly direction.The EU project in its nature is not working to strengthen Christs message but eliminate it through secularism and ''equality'' which is the social tenant of communism. State control, no independent rights.

If there is any benefits to Christian people, to our faith, then feel free to tell us but at this moment in time off the top of my head I cant think of any.

I would be thrilled to have so many more non-Christians coming into my country. Gives you more of a chance to spread the Gospel without having to go to countries where that could cost you your life.

 

[mindlight]

 

[Arcangl86]

View attachment 257234

I know Labour and the Tories are mixed, but I thought that generally speaking the Tories are Pro and Labour is anti. Is that accurate?

 

[mindlight]

I know Labour and the Tories are mixed, but I thought that generally speaking the Tories are Pro and Labour is anti. Is that accurate?

The Tories are pro BREXIT but with some Remainers also but have been trying to get the EU agreement through which no one wants. Labour tend towards Remain but Corbyn has been playing politics and has not come down one way or the other. The electorate punished both parties for their lack of clarity. Britain is far more partisan than its parties on this issue with people either for or against BREXIT. But overall if you add Tories to BREXIT and Labour to Remain then REMAIN WINS!!!

 

[Goonie]

Lib Dems and Greens and Nationalist parties who all oppose BREXIT are outperforming the proBREXIT parties. Hope the trend continues. If it does BREXIT will not have a democratic mandate any more and there will need to be a second referendum

https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/crjeqkdevwvt/the-uks-european-elections-2019

Don’t be silly. The brexit party’s showing will dominate the discussion and stream roll us of the cliff. The fact that the remain parties won the overall majority will be ignored by the Tories, who are almost certain to elect Boris, and Labour under Corbyn will ignore the lesson as always.

 

[mindlight]

Don’t be silly. The brexit party’s showing will dominate the discussion and stream roll us of the cliff. The fact that the remain parties won the overall majority will be ignored by the Tories, who are almost certain to elect Boris, and Labour under Corbyn will ignore the lesson as always.

Boris looks like the strongest candidate for the Tories and the most likely to win Labour voters who just want BREXIT though his own party may yet disagree. If he is elected, as you say, that will put an unapologetically hard line BREXITEER in charge of the government and restore clarity to the Tory position - as the BREXIT party they would inherit the votes given to Nigel Farage. But he will still have the problem of a hard border in NI to deal with and a majority in the commons against Hard BREXIT. He would have to simply time out the extension and rely on Corbyn to be obstructive against any positive way forward which is probably a safe bet. Then hard BREXIT would happen by default.

OR Corbyn could stop playing this game of being the candidate that will unite the country after BREXIT to implement his Marxist pipedreams and start thinking about the national interest. Fact is the Remain parties, with Labour, have a majority and can stop BREXIT. If Corbyn thought this through, though it pains me to say it, he would know how damaging defeat on BREXIT would be to the Tories. After these Europeans he can force a Second Referendum on the government and would secure votes from some Tories like Ken Clark for that.

BREXIT can still be stopped, the maths is crystal clear, though I must admit Corbyn is probably in the way of that rather than our White Knight in waiting.

 

[Daniel C]

Are you trying to get yourself reported. I would edit that post if I were you.

Fact is that most German Christians I know think it is Christian to care for those running from oppression and war. While many of those who are voting against the EU are actually racists who do not like coloured people in their swimming pools.

You are clearly completely ignorant of European freedoms regarding religion and free speech and though I have tried to explain to you the actual position of for example the German constitution you have either not understood it or ignored it.

It is a more Christian position to work with other churches in Europe to deal with the problems of secularism, immigration and indeed local preferences on governance. Simply running away is not going to work, is very poor stewardship, represents a selfish approach to national politics that is unrighteous, divisive and destabilising.

You keep talking about Germany etc etc etc but the subject is not about Germany, It's about Britain leaving the EU. And this is a Christian forum, so I assumed sincere people would be looking at this situation from a Christian perspective.

This is the EU website: The EU in brief | European Union


According to their own website, their goal is not to promote free speech, here's the list from their website:

The goals of the European Union are:

• promote peace, its values and the well-being of its citizens
• offer freedom, security and justice without internal borders
• sustainable development based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive market economy with full employment and social progress, and environmental protection
• combat social exclusion and discrimination
• promote scientific and technological progress
• enhance economic, social and territorial cohesion and solidarity among EU countries
• respect its rich cultural and linguistic diversity
• establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro.

You are trying to represent the EU in a manner that they themselves do not claim to be pursuing.



I entered this thread by posting who I wanted to see as the new leader of the conservatives and you apparently don't like the idea of a Britain Exiting,fine. I'm not here to convert you, I would however encourage you to learn the facts about these things.

 

[Daniel C]

I would be thrilled to have so many more non-Christians coming into my country. Gives you more of a chance to spread the Gospel without having to go to countries where that could cost you your life.

That's what mission trips are for. To visit people in their homelands and Evangelise.If they convert then they are part of the community, if not then they get this Matthew 10:14 as Christ commanded .

 

[mindlight]

You keep talking about Germany etc etc etc but the subject is not about Germany, It's about Britain leaving the EU. And this is a Christian forum, so I assumed sincere people would be looking at this situation from a Christian perspective.

This is the EU website: The EU in brief | European Union


According to their own website, their goal is not to promote free speech, here's the list from their website:

The goals of the European Union are:

• promote peace, its values and the well-being of its citizens
• offer freedom, security and justice without internal borders
• sustainable development based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive market economy with full employment and social progress, and environmental protection
• combat social exclusion and discrimination
• promote scientific and technological progress
• enhance economic, social and territorial cohesion and solidarity among EU countries
• respect its rich cultural and linguistic diversity
• establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro.

You are trying to represent the EU in a manner that they themselves do not claim to be pursuing.



I entered this thread by posting who I wanted to see as the new leader of the conservatives and you apparently don't like the idea of a Britain Exiting,fine. I'm not here to convert you, I would however encourage you to learn the facts about these things.

So what in that list is Anti-Christian?!!

Article 10 of EU constitution: – Freedom of expression

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

 

[mindlight]

Britain regrets Brexit: European election results show a solid majority for Remain

Remain v hard Brexit: what the UK's EU election results tell us

Who won the UK’s European elections - Leave or Remain?

EU election results: UUP's Kennedy eliminated - SF tops poll in Northern Ireland as Remain parties win 57% of vote - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

 

[Goonie]

So what in that list is Anti-Christian?!!

Article 10 of EU constitution: – Freedom of expression

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

At a guess point 4

combat social exclusion and discrimination

 

[Arcangl86]

That's what mission trips are for. To visit people in their homelands and Evangelise.If they convert then they are part of the community, if not then they get this Matthew 10:14 as Christ commanded .

Yet the first converts we read about after Jesus resurrected were people who came to Jerusalem. Yes, the apostles went out to evangelize, but they also spread the Gospel to those around them.

 

[Daniel C]

Yet the first converts we read about after Jesus resurrected were people who came to Jerusalem. Yes, the apostles went out to evangelize, but they also spread the Gospel to those around them.

Right but you are not advocating for that. You said to bring in non-believers, I ask how does that benefit a Christian person trying to live a Christ centred life?

The largest group of non believers who enter into Britain in this era are Muslims. In every single country that Islam is the predominant religion, Christians are persecuted. You think allowing the followers of a religion that treats fellow Christians with extreme hostility and intolerance to enter our countries to do the same to us is a good idea?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Lib Dems and Greens and Nationalist parties who all oppose BREXIT are outperforming the proBREXIT parties. Hope the trend continues. If it does BREXIT will not have a democratic mandate any more and there will need to be a second referendum

You just had your second referendum. It's Leave 2, Remain 0.

This EU election is a one issue vote in the UK. It is all about BREXIT. Fact is add the % of votes for the Lib Dems and Greens together and they have more votes than the BREXIT party.

Not if you add UKIP's votes to the Brexit party's total.

I know Labour and the Tories are mixed, but I thought that generally speaking the Tories are Pro and Labour is anti. Is that accurate?

Both are formally pro-Brexit, albeit after a trade deal has been implemented. It was May who invoked article 50 to start the Brexit process, and Corbyn's support for Brexit is no secret.