BREXIT: Revocation

[mindlight]

What would that accomplish? The anti-Brexit parliamentarians would acclaim it if Remain won the day, but they already have made it known that they don't care what the people think or vote for; and the people who favor Brexit will probably not vote in very large numbers, knowing as they do that their votes will not count for anything anyway.

Actually the remain politicians may very well be more tuned into what the people want than the BREXITEERS. 55% of voters now seem to want to stop BREXIT.

Anyway your logic is undemocratic.

BREXITEER: We all agreed to buy x therefore we will buy x
REMAINER: Almost half of us did not agree to that
EX BREXITEER: Yes I agreed to it originally, but x does not work and I have changed my mind and this is looking like a really expensive mistake right now.
REMAINER & EX - BREXITEER: We no longer want to buy x
BREXITEER: You voted for x so we are going to buy x

 

[mindlight]

 

[Goonie]

Mispost

 

[Albion]

Actually the remain politicians may very well be more tuned into what the people want than the BREXITEERS. 55% of voters now seem to want to stop BREXIT.

Anyway your logic is undemocratic.

In my view, my logic is quite democratic.

You say that the majority of voters oppose Brexit, but there was a vote which went the other way. To be democratic is to abide by the expressed will of the people, NOT to guess at it or to make decisions on the basis of unofficial polls or on the basis of what popular opinion seems to be saying while changing from day to day.

We have elections for a purpose, and if their results are not honored, any claim to be operating in a democratic fashion is bogus.

BREXITEER: We all agreed to buy x therefore we will buy x
REMAINER: Almost half of us did not agree to that

"Almost half" means the minority, the losing side.

 

[Goonie]

In my view, my logic is quite democratic.

You say that the majority of voters oppose Brexit, but there was a vote which went the other way. To be democratic is to abide by the expressed will of the people, NOT to guess at it or to make decisions on the basis of unofficial polls or on the basis of what popular opinion seems to be saying while changing from day to day.

We have elections for a purpose, and if their results are not honored, any claim to be operating in a democratic fashion is bogus.



"Almost half" means the minority, the losing side.

Parliament has tried to honour the referendum result on multiple occasions. But there is no agreement on how to leave.

The Majority of the population did not vote to destroy the economy and their jobs. So a no deal, which is what you support(I suspect) is a non starter.

The deal negotiated by May is a dogs dinner, and labour like the Tories are divided with no agreement on where to go.

A second referendum that specifically spells out the options is probably the only thing to break the impass.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

It's going to happen but I think people are coming to the realization is setting in, it's not as simple as putting it on a ballot. England didn't get into the EU easily and they won't exit easily.

The Brexit referendum of 2016 didn't just fall out of the sky, and David Cameron didn't just hold it on a whim. It was the culmination of political trends that had been going on for many years...

Who won the last European Parliamentary elections in the UK five years ago?

Actually the remain politicians may very well be more tuned into what the people want than the BREXITEERS. 55% of voters now seem to want to stop BREXIT.

Anyway your logic is undemocratic.

BREXITEER: We all agreed to buy x therefore we will buy x
REMAINER: Almost half of us did not agree to that
EX BREXITEER: Yes I agreed to it originally, but x does not work and I have changed my mind and this is looking like a really expensive mistake right now.
REMAINER & EX - BREXITEER: We no longer want to buy x
BREXITEER: You voted for x so we are going to buy x

There was 41 years between the last referendum and the one before. Perhaps the issue could be revisited after another 41 years, say in 2057? And how can you even say something doesn't work if it hasn't even been tried yet?

You say that the majority of voters oppose Brexit, but there was a vote which went the other way.

Not to mention that in the last Parliamentary elections, over 80% of the British electorate vote for pro-Brexit parties.

 

[Goonie]

Thinking about the Irish border problem we came up with a solution. In case of Brexit invade Ireland, and lose!

 

[mindlight]

Thinking about the Irish border problem we came up with a solution. In case of Brexit invade Ireland, and lose!

Then the Irish government simply invite Donald Trump to stand besides the Irish PM in his next election campaign praising the combat ability of the Irish army against the Imperial menace of the British Empire aggressors and giving American recognition of the territories conquered in a war of self defence. Brilliant!!

 

[Goonie]

Then the Irish government simply invite Donald Trump to stand besides the Irish PM in his next election campaign praising the combat ability of the Irish army against the Imperial menace of the British Empire aggressors and giving American recognition of the territories conquered in a war of self defence. Brilliant!!

Goodbye Irish question.

 

[Whyayeman]

I want Article 50 to be revoked.
No referendum is binding on Government, but in any case a new Government cannot be bound by decisions taken by their predecessors. There is a good chance that another referendum would be close and thus not really settle anything. What then? Best of three?
Revoking Article 50 would certainly anger many people. Some of them would be likely to demonstrate, some to accept the loss and many might lose faith in the democratic process for a time. It will be up to politicians to win it back through honesty and principle, currently in short supply in those parts.
So I favour revoking and going to the country to seek a new mandate. There could be a clear-out of some of the dross currently occupying seats in the Commons. There could be something of a realignment of the middle ground of British politics. Most of the Conservative Party MPs are Remainers and could be persuaded to follow Anna Soubry out of the Party. Likewise most Labout MPs are Remainers too. Anew party almost forms itself!

 

[mindlight]

I want Article 50 to be revoked.
No referendum is binding on Government, but in any case a new Government cannot be bound by decisions taken by their predecessors. There is a good chance that another referendum would be close and thus not really settle anything. What then? Best of three?
Revoking Article 50 would certainly anger many people. Some of them would be likely to demonstrate, some to accept the loss and many might lose faith in the democratic process for a time. It will be up to politicians to win it back through honesty and principle, currently in short supply in those parts.
So I favour revoking and going to the country to seek a new mandate. There could be a clear-out of some of the dross currently occupying seats in the Commons. There could be something of a realignment of the middle ground of British politics. Most of the Conservative Party MPs are Remainers and could be persuaded to follow Anna Soubry out of the Party. Likewise most Labout MPs are Remainers too. Anew party almost forms itself!

I agree that revoking Article 50 would be ideal. However the political momentum still seems to be with Brexit albeit with a much softer form, as that is the only one that stands a chance with this parliament. We are waiting for whatever deal, if any, comes out of the May-Corbyn talks.

Given an EU extension a second referendum is more likely but again this parliament and especially the Tories have got it into their heads that the expedient thing to do is to go through with BREXIT. Given that the deal making has been a far messier process than many anticipated or voted for and that the result may not be to the liking of many who voted for BREXIT there is definitely a case for a confirmatory vote on whatever deal is eventually agreed by parliament and that should also include the possibility of choosing revocation.

If the EU do not grant an extension then hard BREXIT is what will happen by default. If they do then there is a chance of a softer BREXIT or no BREXIT at all and the possibility of hard BREXIT can be eliminated. A lot of Tories will be unhappy with that.

At the moment both parties have been considerably diminished and in fact shattered by the experience of BREXIT. Whether this breakage persists after BREXIT is resolved one way or another remains to be seen. Also I think that the public will be quite angry with many MPs who were too remain or too leave and will punish them at the next election. Indeed the next election in 2022 (I will have lost my vote by then , having lived outside the UK for 15 years) promises to be a bloodbath and may completely reconfigure the shape of British politics for the years to come.

If there is a European election before Westminster makes up its mind what to do the results of that also promise to be a sort of verdict on the political parties and their handling of BREXIT as much as on BREXIT itself and the EU.

The old patterns are completely shattered and anything could happen really.

 

[Nithavela]

 

[mindlight]

The EU has been able to use BREXIT as a distraction for its many other issues. But these have not gone away. How Britain leaves is important to the Union. But the Union is quite popular and most people benefit from it so i do not see it shattering.

 

[Nithavela]

The EU has been able to use BREXIT as a distraction for its many other issues. But these have not gone away. How Britain leaves is important to the Union. But the Union is quite popular and most people benefit from it so i do not see it shattering.

Note the tower falling on the litte brexit guy.

 

[mindlight]

Note the tower falling on the litte brexit guy.

My reading of the EU is that they are less likely to lash out at the GB after BREXIT than look to smooth over the barriers that result from BREXIT. There is still an EU interest in trade and security with the UK not to mention the large numbers of EU citizens living there. Also the organisation despite all its faults and challenges is more resilient than your picture implies.

 

[mindlight]

First UK passports without EU on them have now been issued

'European Union' removed from UK passports

 

[Nithavela]

First UK passports without EU on them have now been issued

'European Union' removed from UK passports

Nice to see that at least a tiny part of the UK has finally left.

 

[ThievingMagpie]

To answer the OP, I think the Government could revoke Article 50 but are unlikely to do so without a referendum or a general election which returned a party who set this out in their manifesto. Personally I think a second referendum is quickly becoming the only way forward - I imagine a number of Brexiters that voted so for the free-trade posibilities would probably take continued EU membership over being an observing party in a customs union. I'll print before what I said in the previous thread on another referendum:

Given the plurality of views, I think the only way out for politicians would be a referendum on May's deal, no deal, no Brexit with a single transferable vote system allowing voters to indicate 2 or 3 preferences in order. Ironically this would probably deliver a final result in favour of May's deal as most people would either vote remain or no deal first but both camps are likely to vote May's deal second.

 

[Basil the Great]

I have said for weeks now that a second referendum seems like the only way out of a big mess.

 

[mindlight]

Things have gone very quiet since the extension till end October was agreed. A lot of people are fed up with BREXIT but right now our futures are still wide open and revocation, hard Brexit or indeed soft BREXIT remain on the table. We have no cause to relax and just leave this till the last minute again even if the European elections are going to be the next chapter in the story