Breaking Engagements

[Seeking...]

**Rant warning!**

Actually, my first answer was my non-Christian answer, now I will give you a unforgiving hardline Christian answer (kind of like you gave another poster in the divorce thread).

Were you intimate with this fiance? Were there any children created? Then you are married, you are one flesh and you need to return to him. It is unbiblical for you to leave him even if he was not a Christian if you were one flesh with him. You are only set free if he committed adultery or he wanted out. If neither is the case - you should return to him or spend the rest of your life alone.

Maybe you can start a quilting circle with all the other women whoose lives you condemned.

 

[Chrono Traveler]

parted on friendly terms and still keep in touch. What I didn't mention earlier is that this was a very slow transition; it took nearly a year from the time our feelings began to fade until we finally broke up. I put the situation in God's hands and he brought us through smoothly. If my fiance is upset at all about our separation, he shows no sign of it.

He might want you to be happy even if it is at his expense.
I feel that way about my love..:shrugs: Her happiness is mine, and in the end thats what love is all about..Your partners happiness over yours.

but I dunno, if your feelings fade, then...they fade. Although, in many relationships fading feelings can be prevented by communication and always trying to keep things new.

 

[Carri20]

Were you intimate with this fiance? Were there any children created? Then you are married, you are one flesh and you need to return to him. It is unbiblical for you to leave him even if he was not a Christian if you were one flesh with him. You are only set free if he committed adultery or he wanted out. If neither is the case - you should return to him or spend the rest of your life alone.

Well this is where it gets iffy. Yes we did have sex and yes we had children, but still we weren't married. We were sort of stuck in between, if anything, but not married. We vowed to one another that we would marry, but we never vowed to God. According to the Bible, what we did is called "fornication", not "becoming one flesh". Remember when Mary got pregnant with Jesus before she and Joseph were married? If she had not been a virgin, and the baby in her not been Jesus, then the Bible says she would have had to commit fornication to conceive during that time. So you see, the question is not "was I married". The answer to that is no. The question is and always has been, in breaking my commitment to marry am I to refrain from entering in other relationships? I've seen a lot of well thought out responses here, and I look forward to more. And just for the record, if it turns out I should live the rest of my life as a single to please God, I'll do it. If I have to go back to my ex-boyfriend to please God, I'll do it. What I won't do is put my own desires above God's. At all costs, I will not do that.

 

[Hadron]

There is the view that the act of having sex is also the act of becoming one flesh - that sex was reserved for marriage and marriage for sex. In other words, the two are inseparable.
I think your pliability to God's will in this is important and He will reveal to you one way or another what is to be done... it just may take a while.

 

[Seeking...]

Well this is where it gets iffy. Yes we did have sex and yes we had children, but still we weren't married. We were sort of stuck in between, if anything, but not married. We vowed to one another that we would marry, but we never vowed to God. According to the Bible, what we did is called "fornication", not "becoming one flesh". Remember when Mary got pregnant with Jesus before she and Joseph were married? If she had not been a virgin, and the baby in her not been Jesus, then the Bible says she would have had to commit fornication to conceive during that time. So you see, the question is not "was I married". The answer to that is no. The question is and always has been, in breaking my commitment to marry am I to refrain from entering in other relationships? I've seen a lot of well thought out responses here, and I look forward to more. And just for the record, if it turns out I should live the rest of my life as a single to please God, I'll do it. If I have to go back to my ex-boyfriend to please God, I'll do it. What I won't do is put my own desires above God's. At all costs, I will not do that.

How will you know what God's desires are? You'll probably read scripture right? Seek wise cousel? Pray and wait for the conviction of the Holy Spirit? Fine - but that poster in the other thread did that as well Carri and came to a decision that she found was right with her and with God and whether you believe it or not there is scriptural support for it. You do not hold the sole interpretation of the Bible Carri. Hang out on this board long enough and you will meet Christians who will tell you that are indeed married to the father of your children - that you made that choice when you shared your body with him. They will be able to give you scriptural support for that as well. The fact is that many Christians are not in agreement on these topics - you have to search and find the answer within yourself - allow the Holy Spirit to convict YOU. But please don't be so arrogant as to call another woman an adultress and tell her how she should live her life. There was nothing uplifting in your statements - it was evil and it was wrong.

 

[flicka]

Well this is where it gets iffy. Yes we did have sex and yes we had children, but still we weren't married. We were sort of stuck in between, if anything, but not married. We vowed to one another that we would marry, but we never vowed to God. According to the Bible, what we did is called "fornication", not "becoming one flesh". Remember when Mary got pregnant with Jesus before she and Joseph were married? If she had not been a virgin, and the baby in her not been Jesus, then the Bible says she would have had to commit fornication to conceive during that time. So you see, the question is not "was I married". The answer to that is no. The question is and always has been, in breaking my commitment to marry am I to refrain from entering in other relationships? I've seen a lot of well thought out responses here, and I look forward to more. And just for the record, if it turns out I should live the rest of my life as a single to please God, I'll do it. If I have to go back to my ex-boyfriend to please God, I'll do it. What I won't do is put my own desires above God's. At all costs, I will not do that.

Carri I'm going to be blunt. Please don't let your faith corrupt your intelligence or common sense. The fact is that when it comes to things like this NOBODY knows what God wants! The only thing us mortals have to go one are our instincts and feelings. You know christians don't agree about these things and even if you think God is telling you to do something I can guarentee it's YOU telling you to do something, whether it's what you want deep down or what you get pressured others into believing is the best thing.

Don't sit around waiting for signs from God, just think about your situation and do what is best for yourself and your kids. Afterall, God would not want you to ever put yourself in a position that was less than ideal.

 

[Chrono Traveler]

Carri I'm going to be blunt. Please don't let your faith corrupt your intelligence or common sense. The fact is that when it comes to things like this NOBODY knows what God wants! The only thing us mortals have to go one are our instincts and feelings. You know christians don't agree about these things and even if you think God is telling you to do something I can guarentee it's YOU telling you to do something, whether it's what you want deep down or what you get pressured others into believing is the best thing.

Don't sit around waiting for signs from God, just think about your situation and do what is best for yourself and your kids. Afterall, God would not want you to ever put yourself in a position that was less than ideal.

This thread makes me sad.

And You make a good point.

my feelings might be slightly different though.
All my life even when I was but a child. I thought the best way I could honor god or the gods was to take care of my friends and family and take care of teh Earth itself. I love my partner, very very much. She DOES have a rligious view much like mine. However, I feel the most important connection we have is respect, compassion, love, and trust for one another. Ive never felt closer to any other person in my life....and quite franky, now I have never felt closer to a god.

Trying to follow a god directly has never done me any good. I only feel the spiritual presence when I honor and take whats around me.

so my view is really just.....
Love, respect, and compassion of the things made for us here on Earth=Love, respect and compassion for gods.

 

[Eudaimonist]

and breaks the engagement so as not to be unequally yoked to a non-believer

That would be sad if they loved each other enough to get married, but I think I could understand this as a prudent decision. While multi-faith marriages can work reasonably well for tolerant people, they can lead to many problems and weak bonds.

I'm getting married soon, and the issue of "yokes" is one that I have seriously considered in making this decision. I would be very cautious about marrying someone, even someone I loved very much, if she wasn't absolutely comfortable with marrying an atheist.

After all, if she were a conservative Christian, no matter how much she loved me she would probably hear all kinds of libel from her fellow Christians about how atheists are evil people, and even in spite of the distortions there would be still be some fundamental differences in our respective worldviews that would make fellowship (character friendship) between us impossible. Our ethical targets would have at least some differences, and could therefore lead to moral tension.

I have found someone who differs a bit on some metaphysical issues (she's not a Christian, though she believes in life after death, for instance), however our moral values, and in particular our relationship values, are very similar. And she is very comfortable with me being an atheist (she considers herself an agnostic). In my judgment, the "yokes" are close enough to be identical for all practical purposes, and so marriage seems a prudent decision on this count.

 

[bliz]

Carrie -

In God's eyes you were, and are, married to this man. This is not a matter of "Should I marry a non-Christian?" you are already married to a non-Christian.

Christians differ on the issue of remarriage, and if so, under what conditions. Since the two of you are already one flesh, it seems to make sense to make it leagl.

 

[Carri20]

How will you know what God's desires are? You'll probably read scripture right? Seek wise cousel? Pray and wait for the conviction of the Holy Spirit? Fine - but that poster in the other thread did that as well Carri and came to a decision that she found was right with her and with God and whether you believe it or not there is scriptural support for it.

There's a difference between reading the Bible for what it actually says and reading it for what you'd like it to say. The poster you speak of needed to hear what God says about her situation for her own sake.

NOBODY knows what God wants!

He who seeks the truth will find it. That's in the Bible. I believe I can hear from God, especially since I've heard from him in the past and have a relationship with him. I don't know why he hasn't answered my question yet. Maybe he already has and something is hindering me from hearing. I don't know. But it is possible to have a 2-way communication with him.

 

[Carri20]

In God's eyes you were, and are, married to this man.

No I'm not. By that logic if I had had 10 sexual partners I would have 10 husbands, and if a stranger had raped me I'd be married to him also. That's not what the Bible teaches and I challenge you to prove otherwise.

 

[Jetgirl]

Here's an issue that doesn't come up very often...

If two non-Christians are engaged, and then one of them becomes a Christian and breaks the engagement so as not to be unequally yoked to a non-believer, is that person (the Christian) free to pursue other relationships and possibly marry someone else later? Or is it the same as if they had gotten a divorce, even though the actual wedding never took place?

My concern would be:

Would you really want someone who felt as if they were unequally yoked to you staying with you grudgingly out of a sense of Biblical responsablity?

Sounds like a preface to disaster and an unhappy marriage.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Here's an issue that doesn't come up very often...

If two non-Christians are engaged, and then one of them becomes a Christian and breaks the engagement so as not to be unequally yoked to a non-believer, is that person (the Christian) free to pursue other relationships and possibly marry someone else later? Or is it the same as if they had gotten a divorce, even though the actual wedding never took place?

On the one hand they've made a commitment, but on the other hand the Bible commands Christians not to be married to non-Christians. Also in biblical times people were referred to as husband and wife during the engagement--or betrothal--period, and for them to call it off at that point required a certificate of divorce.

You wont need to be divorced , but because a promise is a promise , before breaking it off , i would be sure he isnt open to becoming a believer . Can he be counceled by the pastor of your church ? If these things have been done and you are certain He isnt open to becoming a believer , then you are free , because we are not purposely to be yoked to a non believer , however if you have consumated that relationship , you definately need to speak with your pastor and so does he .

 

[Angel4Truth]

Personally I think that personally attacking people on a message board without knowing thing one about them is what is immature but thats my opinion ....I also think the same about getting personal with someone else because you dont like their world veiw .

 

[Ledifni]

Is it really fair to say that? I defied my entire family to be with him for 5 years. You don't know what went on in those 5 years. I no longer love him as a lover, but I love him very much in the way Christ loves us, and I pray for him daily. It's not a matter of me not loving him--I just love God more. I had to put God first. I don't regret that.

If God comes before your relationships, then what right have you to take marriage vows? How can you swear to something when you know beforehand that your religious beliefs will take precedence?

You seem to feel that one should never be unequally yoked, but that if a marriage exists, one is not free to pursue an equal yoking. So tell me -- are you going to swear to "love him, comfort him, honor and keep him, in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse, in sadness and in joy, to cherish and continually bestow upon him your heart’s deepest devotion, forsaking all others, keep yourself only unto him as long as you both shall live?" But if he becomes non-Christian, then you will have to break those solemn and loving and serious vows.

I would say that if God is more important than your spouse, you have no right to promise your spouse that he will be the most important person in your life. Not only so, you have a duty to tell everyone you're involved with that you will willingly betray their love if it seems to you that God wants you to -- else you are betraying not only their love, but their trust as well.

 

[Ledifni]

Personally I think that personally attacking people on a message board without knowing thing one about them is what is immature but thats my opinion ....I also think the same about getting personal with someone else because you dont like their world veiw .

She specifically called me and all nonbelievers God-haters and Christian-haters in another thread. Then she makes a thread that shows quite a bit of hate (not to mention that her earlier accusations are rather hateful in and of themselves), IMO.

It has nothing to do with not liking her worldview. It has to do with disliking baseless accusations. If she's going to accuse us of hate (when we have not even shown any), and then express the same herself, then I'm going to call her on it.

 

[Jetgirl]

After reading both this and the Divorce Thread (now closed for review) i find the need to make a statement:

Matthew 7:3-5

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Wash, rinse, repeat as needed.

Ahem... Ms. Unwed-Mother-of-Two, may want to reconsider her stance on other's sins, lest she call down judgement of her own....

 

[Ledifni]

After reading both this and the Divorce Thread (now closed for review) i find the need to make a statement:

Matthew 7:3-5

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Wash, rinse, repeat as needed.

Yeah, yeah, I know. But at least I don't hate people with sweeping generalizations -- my problems with hate come in when a specific person says or does something that I simply cannot stomach.

But then, you can say that I fail in plenty of other ways, too, and you'd be right. It's just... very, very frustrating.

 

[Jetgirl]

Yeah, yeah, I know. But at least I don't hate people with sweeping generalizations -- my problems with hate come in when a specific person says or does something that I simply cannot stomach.

But then, you can say that I fail in plenty of other ways, too, and you'd be right. It's just... very, very frustrating.

Hey Ledifini,

That actually wasn't directed toward you.

Anyhow, that was my point, everyone has troubles and makes mistakes and bad decisions, and we all have the capacity to empathize with others who are having a hard time, to put ourselves in their place (of course some people never develop this ability, they're generally refered to as psychopaths...).

Since we have this incredible ability, we should know better than to strafe judgements at people, unless we're comfortable having that spotlight directed back onto our own problems.

My sensiblities are most offended when people use Biblical text to eagerly rend into the sins of another, while blissfully excusing their own. Of course, they usually claim that you fail to interpret the Bible correctly (ie: so that it benefits them) when you point out the contradiction.

 

[Carri20]

Why do you keep throwing the word "hate" around? Even if you're not a Christian, don't you think it's wrong to falsely accuse someone? If I accused all gay people of being rapists just because some of them are, does that make it true? No. And I wouldn't do a thing like that anyway. So I'll ask again that you please show the same consideration to me. (Or am I somehow less than human because I disagree with your opinion?)

The "plank in your eye" passage means that you must confess your sins before God and repent of them before you confront someone else about their sin. It doesn't say you should NEVER confront someone else about their sin. Such a statement would be contrary to the entire message of the Bible, and fyi, I do bring my sins before God for repentence regularly.

Marriage is not about making your partner the top priority in your life. It's about committing to remain with your partner as a helpmate until death do you part, and living together to please God and put God first.

Breaking up with someone because of religious differences before marriage is parallel with the commands of the Bible. Breaking up with someone because of religious differences after marriage is NOT parallel with the commands of the Bible. The Bible says that if your mate is not a believer, you should stay with them if they wish to stay with you. If they leave because you're a Christian, then it's not your fault. (But that still doesn't mean you can remarry.)

Could you all do me a favor and at least read the book before you go spitting out advice that you think it gives (but actually doesn't)?