Bottom line: Can a Christian believe in evolution and still be saved?

[timothyu]

...or even Alfred E. Neuman?

Ah.. the greatest influencer of the era.

 

[hedrick]

Thats just it.
"Suspect" ( especially if one already knows it didnt happen)
No way to know for sure what the bible intends.
Outside sources are useful.
But- what if the authors meant all of it literally?

I’m sure they did mean at least some of it literally. My point was that if you look back at the history of exegesis, you’ll find that many scholars concluded that parts of it were non historical using only examination of the Bible itself.

 

[Astrid]

I’m sure they did mean at least some of it literally. My point was that if you look back at the history of exegesis, you’ll find that many scholars concluded that parts of it were non historical using only examination of the Bible itself.

Of course.
" jesus is a door" , say

 

[AV1611VET]

Of course.
" jesus is a door" , say

Let me guess:

And you're a peach?

 

[Gottservant]

Just a random thought:

The Bible could easily have begun at the fall of the tower of Babel; it would simply be a long list of ways of saying "I told you so".

What we have, is far richer than that.

 

[disciple Clint]

The word " scholar" applies to those with an in- depth knowledge
of a specific field of study.
If you could identify someone with a DD, and a PhD
in say geomorphology, who actively pursues both
in a scholarly way I will be most impressed.
They would be very rare if there is even one.

My point is that, for example, one could be a
dedicated scholar of the bible, and never ever
find whether the flood is historic fact that occurred
exactly as written, its just a story of unknown origin
and purpose, or, somewhere in between.

For whether there was an actual flood one has
somewhere outside whats between the covers of
a book.
If there is a bible scholar who is also a geomorphologist,
well, there's a guy with a qualified opinion about
whether the literal flood interpretation is valid.

Though there is no need to read the bible at all
to know there was no flood.

This somehow ( "I have no idea") isnt obvious?

You seem to think that there is no teamwork between bible scholars and scholars of other disciplines. For example here is an article on the flood written by Dr. Andrew Snelling holds a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney, Australia. He serves as Answers in Genesis’ Director of Research and is the Editor-in-Chief of the online Answers Research Journal. Dr. Snelling is active in research and writes and also speaks on topics such as the Flood, fossils, and the Grand Canyon. Geologic Evidences for the Genesis Flood

 

[AV1611VET]

The Bible could easily have begun at the fall of the tower of Babel;

Scholars would like that!

 

[Astrid]

You seem to think that there is no teamwork between bible scholars and scholars of other disciplines. For example here is an article on the flood written by Dr. Andrew Snelling holds a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney, Australia. He serves as Answers in Genesis’ Director of Research and is the Editor-in-Chief of the online Answers Research Journal. Dr. Snelling is active in research and writes and also speaks on topics such as the Flood, fossils, and the Grand Canyon. Geologic Evidences for the Genesis Flood

Regardless of what you choose to make
up about me, I am not a total dimwit.
Of course some bible scholars will refer
to the work of researchers in other fields,
though that wasnt your original claim.

And some not- so scholarly people will
try to support their preconceived ideas by
resort to some shabby fraud like the geologist
you referred to.

 

[Rachel20]

"Information" does not appear to need a God either. At least no one with a belief in God has ever found a reason why. Once again, it is your claim, I am not the one to tell you what evidence you should have. I can only analyze the evidence that you produce and explain if it is valid or not. Why it is valid or not would be a key part of my duty if you did provide what you claimed to be evidence. I could not just hand wave it away.

I was just thinking out loud. Though I do find it interesting you want evidence, but then don't seem to know what would suffice as evidence.

 

[Astrid]

I was just thinking out loud. Though I do find it interesting you want evidence, but then don't seem to know what would suffice as evidence.

That is an interesting question.
I dont for example know what would seem evidence of God,
to me.
Id find out if it happened. If there's a God, He would know
what works.

How about you? What evidence might convince you
there is no god?
Or some chosen belief about a god.
We note for example that those who ( choose to) find
it vital to their faith will cling to such as " flood " or
" no evolution" 100% regardless of evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

And some not- so scholarly people will try to support their preconceived ideas by resort to some shabby fraud like the geologist you referred to.

Who's shabbier? Dr Snelling, or the University of Sydney, who gave Dr Snelling his PhD?

According to Wikipedia:

Founded in 1850 as Australia's first university, it is regarded as one of the world's leading universities.

SOURCE

Are you telling us that one of the world's leading universities gives out PhDs to "not- so scholarly people"?

I might understand what you're saying, had Dr Snelling gotten his PhD from Patriot University -- but the University of Sydney??

And you wonder why I don't take academia as seriously as you?

 

[hedrick]

You seem to think that there is no teamwork between bible scholars and scholars of other disciplines. For example here is an article on the flood written by Dr. Andrew Snelling holds a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney, Australia. He serves as Answers in Genesis’ Director of Research and is the Editor-in-Chief of the online Answers Research Journal. Dr. Snelling is active in research and writes and also speaks on topics such as the Flood, fossils, and the Grand Canyon. Geologic Evidences for the Genesis Flood

Indeed he does. Or at least he used to. But it appears that in his scientific work he believes in an old earth. Will the Real Dr Snelling Please Stand Up?

If their list of articles is representative, it appears that he changed his mind. Since his particular focus as a scientist makes no sense in a young earth context, his young earth views would not be a result of his scientific expertise, but an abandonment of it. Of course it’s perfectly ok to changes your mind, and even to decide that what you have been doing is based on a mistake.

 

[Rachel20]

That is an interesting question.
I dont for example know what would seem evidence of God,
to me.
Id find out if it happened. If there's a God, He would know
what works.

How about you? What evidence might convince you
there is no god?
Or some chosen belief about a god.
We note for example that those who ( choose to) find
it vital to their faith will cling to such as " flood " or
" no evolution" 100% regardless of evidence.

Hi Estrid. Check the verse below. It doesn't seem to me this verse could be true and at the same time God would intend to provide the type of "evidence" that would satisfy, say, a materialist.

1 Co 1:21-22
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

 

[Astrid]

Hi Estrid. Check the verse below. It doesn't seem to me this verse could be true and at the same time God would intend to provide the type of "evidence" that would satisfy, say, a materialist.

1 Co 1:21-22
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Could be. Who knows what it means.

 

[Astrid]

Indeed he does. Or at least he used to. But it appears that in his scientific work he believes in an old earth. Will the Real Dr Snelling Please Stand Up?

If their list of articles is representative, it appears that he changed his mind. Since his particular focus as a scientist makes no sense in a young earth context, his young earth views would not be a result of his scientific expertise, but an abandonment of it. Of course it’s perfectly ok to changes your mind, and even to decide that what you have been doing is based on a mistake.

Its as i have mentioned elsewhere, its impossible
to be a well informed yec / flood promoter,
and be intellectually honest.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Hi Estrid. Check the verse below. It doesn't seem to me this verse could be true and at the same time God would intend to provide the type of "evidence" that would satisfy, say, a materialist.

1 Co 1:21-22
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Could be the verse is wrong.

 

[Rachel20]

Could be the verse is wrong.

Sure. Or it could be that God, who has always been primarily concerned with the condition of the heart throughout scripture, is just being consistent here.

 

[Astrid]

Sure. Or it could be that God, who has always been primarily concerned with the condition of the heart throughout scripture, is just being consistent here.

Or that none of the countless gods daemons and
spirits are real.

 

[Rachel20]

Or that none of the countless gods daemons and
spirits are real.

There are many options. So what is the fundamental basis of the one you choose?

 

[hedrick]

Its as i have mentioned elsewhere, its impossible
to be a well informed yec / flood promoter,
and be intellectually honest.

I’m not sure this is true. But it’s hard to imagine one publishing articles that describe how many millions of years old various rock strata are.