Both Evolution and Christianity?

[krugerpark]

well at least half of the church today believes in all kinds of things that were considered heresies in the early church and even during the 1st, 2nd and 3rd great awakenings, I'm completely unsurprised if so-called Christians think i'm out to lunch. It's expected and would be surprised if there was much agreement on anything that God said considering the lies the church has decided to believe these days.

 

[Adaephon]

well at least half of the church today believes in all kinds of things that were considered heresies in the early church and even during the 1st, 2nd and 3rd great awakenings, I'm completely unsurprised if so-called Christians think i'm out to lunch. It's expected and would be surprised if there was much agreement on anything that God said considering the lies the church has decided to believe these days.

That's... Nice, I guess. I am well aware of the prevalence of unorthodox belief these days. Even on this very forum are quite a few open Nestorians, Monophysites, Gnostics, Docetists, etc.

 

[Assyrian]

ANYONE WHO LIKES TO DEBATE EVOLUTION ONLINE: Here is what I have found out from debating many, many evo fans. Start asking the Qs at the bottom of page 9 and you will get no answers. You will get evasions, just as I stated, early on in this string, would happen here. You will get a variety of reasons for why you are getting those evasions (Aedophon came up with an original excuse, gotta give him credit for that), but you will get evasions. Every time.

And those Qs are just the tip of the iceberg in terms of using the Socratic method to reveal the truth about evolution.

You might get a better response if you actually engaged in discussion rather than ignoring the points people make and replying with a list of pre prepared questions. When you asked that list of questions to Adaephon on the bottom of page 9, did you bother to address the point Adaephon made in the previous post? Just asking a load of questions over and over again and avoiding discussion does not make you a Socrates.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

This isn't directed towards anyone specific but I always liked when a christian says to another "Your are not listening and are deaf to the truth! I have studied <insert topic> and know the truth! To many choose to ignore the truth and question what they believe!". Its funny because those same people are basically talking about themselves. They don't want to hear anyones views either.

Its why christianity today has caused so much division. Everyone thinks they are the right ones and everyone else is sinful and wrong.

 

[VictoriasImage77]

Evolution and Genesis have no conflict in my mind or heart.

You have to remember that Genesis (and most of the bible) was written in a time where knowledge of cells and things (science) were virtually nonexistent or extremely cutting-edge theories. The author had to describe things that they did not fully understand or have experience in describing. For example, in the book of Revelation, John refers to balls of fire crashing from the heavens. To me these are either meteors or bombs of sorts, but he wouldn't have known about those things at the time. He could only describe them as best he could. The same with Genesis. Science is simply a tool developed by man to help him learn about the world around him. What we have learned through science as of now reinforces what the bible has told us about history in my opinion. I wish I had the time right now to fully explain to you my take on Genesis, but I do not

 

[seeingeyes]

This isn't directed towards anyone specific but I always liked when a christian says to another "Your are not listening and are deaf to the truth! I have studied <insert topic> and know the truth! To many choose to ignore the truth and question what they believe!". Its funny because those same people are basically talking about themselves. They don't want to hear anyones views either.

Its why christianity today has caused so much division. Everyone thinks they are the right ones and everyone else is sinful and wrong.

Amen, brother.

No matter how staunchly we hold our view of origins (and for whichever reasons), we are still called to submit to one another in love.

 

[Soothfish]

I just can't seem to figure out how mutations can create new DNA information. It's an area I've looked into, but every explanation sounds like double talk and circular reasoning.

Mutations are nothing more than the re-arrangement, removal, or addition of single nucleotides from molecules of complimentary DNA. This results in alterations in the assembly of amino acids and proteins. Mutations can also affect regulatory genes, the areas of the chromosome that are responsible for protein signaling.

Many creationists like to throw around the term "information" but I don't think that is the proper term to use. Information is the transference of your knowledge of a fact. "Information" cannot be a thing that exists in the physical world, only a description of the thing. For example, my explanation of mutations is "information". The physical reality is the chemistry going on in that mutant DNA.

If you are trying to ask why things are so complicated...well...compared to what? Earth is the only life-bearing planet that we know of. There are estimated to be trillions of Earth-like planets nearby but we are still too stupid to study them. Complicated compared to the rock you stepped on picking up the mail this morning? Our abilities are currently inferior to the angels...by a GREAT measure! Even if it won't be like that forever.

 

[Soothfish]

You could look at Radiometric Dating which is an overview of the different dating techniques including Carbon 14. Or you could have a look at PE-04 A 40000 year varve chronology from Japan


The problem is, Creationists use the term information to refer to DNA but to discuss it, Creationists need to come up with a definition of what information means in this context or how the amount of information can be measured. If you can't quantify the amount of information it is impossible to say whether information has increased or decreased. Without a definition of information, it is meaningless to ask if new information has been created.

Information cannot be measured. Information is the measurement...literally. Information does not exist outside the bounds of the piece of paper or sound, or computer screen that it is written on

I'm not being facetious here. Young Earth creationists are in fact misusing the language.

 

[Soothfish]

People are compromising with evolution & Christianity because they think that believing in evolution is more "intelligent" & "scientific". In my view, the 2 absolutely cannot co-exist. If you discard Genesis, you may as well discard any other book that doesn't seem accurate. Original sin has to come from the 1st 2 sinful human beings, not 2 ape-people just learning to say words. Jesus & His apostles believed in creation & Jesus was divinity personified. He would know what went on in the past.

Many people think that what mainstream science says must be correct because scientists must know most everything. Just like when mainstream science said most of our DNA was junk & now we know that's not the case. I had my doubt too but now I realize it's absurd to believe in evolution from a single cell. Louis Pasteur already showed that spontaneous generation or chemical evolution is impossible. The probability is 1 in 10^40,000. 1 in a number with 40,000 zeros after it! Crick was so desperate for an alternative idea for the origin of life that he believed in panspermia ... which doesn't really solve the problem I'm surprised that God took 6 days to create, considering he probably could have done it in a second. Evolution is an ideology based on no proof. The only thing that is heralded as evidence is genetic similarities & fossils. There's no hard empirical data. I read the book "In Six Days". It was an interesting read.

The original of life has absolutely nothing to do with population dynamics (i.e evolution).

 

[Soothfish]

So an intelligent, proactive Diety just lets things happen by accident and this is what you call "directing" things?

YEP!!!!!

Sin looks like a pretty horrible accident to me. Just sayin...

 

[anglozaxon]

Its easy - God made it all

 

[xxxxxxtra]

They don't coexist. These people are making every effort to find an excuse for their rebellion against God. It is so that they are not accountable for their sins. But reality is they are still accountable to the Creator God.. It's a shame. We can only lead by example..

 

[krugerpark]

Evolution and Genesis have no conflict in my mind or heart.

You have to remember that Genesis (and most of the bible) was written in a time where knowledge of cells and things (science) were virtually nonexistent or extremely cutting-edge theories. The author had to describe things that they did not fully understand or have experience in describing. For example, in the book of Revelation, John refers to balls of fire crashing from the heavens. To me these are either meteors or bombs of sorts, but he wouldn't have known about those things at the time. He could only describe them as best he could. The same with Genesis. Science is simply a tool developed by man to help him learn about the world around him. What we have learned through science as of now reinforces what the bible has told us about history in my opinion. I wish I had the time right now to fully explain to you my take on Genesis, but I do not

The prophecies by Enoch were made during an era of technological and scientific knowledge such as may never be again. Records tell us that ancient Atlantis which was around prior to the flood and during Enochs time had everything that we do, and more.

 

[Girder of Loins]

@_@ How has this thread not been closed for review? Close the debates and take it elsewhere. Perhaps through pm's, then post the responses as a thread to share it with us all. I don't know. Just abide by the rules. Less work for our mods and admins.

 

[krugerpark]

maybe they could be less gestapo and more freedom oriented

there's no reason to close threads, there are 100 forums already no one visits, if people want to discuss something the only reason to close is they don't agree with what was said

 

[The Fire Rises]

I found this article, if anyone is interested:

Should Genesis be taken literally?

I haven't read through it all the way yet, but whoever wrote it seemed to have done a lot of research on this subject.

If you read it, let me know what you think

 

[Adaephon]

I found this article, if anyone is interested:

Should Genesis be taken literally?

I haven't read through it all the way yet, but whoever wrote it seemed to have done a lot of research on this subject.

If you read it, let me know what you think

That site is well known as being rather silly. Notice they don't even bother trying to refute the mountains of evidence contradicting their position. Elephant in the room much?

 

[The Fire Rises]

That site is well known as being rather silly. Notice they don't even bother trying to refute the mountains of evidence contradicting their position. Elephant in the room much?

Sorry, I suppose I'm not an expert on theological web sites after all. And like I said, I hadn't read it in it's entirety.

Well, that was my two cents lol. I'll probably stay clear of thread in any case. I have the truth that God gave me, I don't need all this debate about when this or that was created.

 

[anglozaxon]

The prophecies by Enoch were made during an era of technological and scientific knowledge such as may never be again. Records tell us that ancient Atlantis which was around prior to the flood and during Enochs time had everything that we do, and more.

Atlantis??? where are you getting your info from?

 

[Adaephon]

Atlantis??? where are you getting your info from?

The Disney film?