LDS BOOK OF MORMON FALSE HISTORY 2

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hasn't for the last 30 years. Actually keeps strengthening.

I did not say it would change for your good.

 

[Jane_Doe]

There is nothing in the bible about the Father having a Father, there is nothing in the bible that states we are a product of the Father and a heavenly mother, there is nothing in the bible about us having existed before we were born, there is nothing in the bible about going to some planet where men will have multiple wives and have children and attain Godhood, ---- all these ideas come from JS and are not in the bible. Without JS stating these things, you have no biblical bases for such things. He told you what to believe in----you like what it says and decided this is truth. That is what happens when you disregard the word of God, and believe in what a man says instead of going by the bible and testing what they say against the bible.

Mmksparbud, the statements I bolded here I specifically told you just this afternoon were untrue. Why are you making them?

 

[mmksparbud]

Mmksparbud, the statements I bolded here I specifically told you just this afternoon were untrue. Why are you making them?

Because they are true. Without him stating these ideas, you would not have even come up with such things from just reading the bible.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Because they are true.

No, no. they are not.

I spent an over an hour having a conversation with you, being completely honest with you and... and hoesnly right now I'm feeling like you've ignored every thing I've said. It is very frustrating and makes me feel extremely disrespected as a person.
Is that an accurate sum up of it?
If it is not, please tell me so and how you have indeed be listening to me.

 

[mmksparbud]

No, no. they are not.

I spent an over an hour having a conversation with you, being completely honest with you and... and hoesnly right now I'm feeling like you've ignored every thing I've said. It is very frustrating and makes me feel extremely disrespected as a person.
Is that an accurate sum up of it?
If it is not, please tell me so and how you have indeed be listening to me.

I have indeed read and understood every word you've said. But there is no bases for these ideas other than the brain of JS---they do not come from the bible. For over 2 thousand years since Christ, no one has come up with this from the bible----and the only way to do so is to say that the bible is not true, that things have been lost and that he was given the real truth. The Father has no Father--He was never human and became a man--Jesus is His only Son and He was divine who became human to save us--not the other way around. You can not come up with we existed before being born from the bible itself. There is no mention of a heavenly mother and we re their product and that is how he was born and therefor is the brother to Jesus. It's impossible to come up with that it was Lucifer who brought about our ability to have children because of the fall when the bible clearly states otherwise. You can say you do not have JS as the one whom you believe in, but it is his ideas you do believe in, not the plain truth of the bible---because, according to your believe---it is not the real truth and only JS has it. No reason to feel disrespected as a person. You have been bought by the blood of Jesus and are priceless. But you believe in the "other book of Jesus"--not fully in the bible alone.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I have indeed read and understood every word you've said.

Please demonstrate that to me then. Rest of your post makes me feel the exact opposite is true.

No reason to feel disrespected as a person.

Being ignored and then having someone "inform" you what you think when you just told them the exact opposite is a very valid reason to feel disrespected. That's how I feel right now.

 

[mmksparbud]

Please demonstrate that to me then. Rest of your post makes me feel the exact opposite is true.

Being ignored and then having someone "inform" you what you think when you just told them the exact opposite is a very valid reason to feel disrespected. That's how I feel right now.

Sorry. But please state from the bible where any of these ideas are stated and that would settle it. You have to disregard the bible to believe these things. And if you do not believe them, then why do you call yourself a Mormon when they stated these things are true.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Sorry.

Your apology is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

But please state from the bible where any of these ideas are stated and that would settle it.

No where in the bible does it say all Truth is found solely in the Bible. The underlying premise of your question here is flawed.

You have to disregard the bible to believe these things. .

Actually no. Just like I don't have to disregard the Bible to believe the many scientistic truths I do.

 

[mmksparbud]

Your apology is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

No where in the bible does it say all Truth is found solely in the Bible. The underlying premise of your question here is flawed.

Actually no. Just like I don't have to disregard the Bible to believe the many scientistic truths I do.

It is all we need.
2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Mat_6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

mammon is not only riches---it also includes
ἰδωλολατρεία
eidōlolatreia
Thayer Definition:
1) the worship of false gods, idolatry
1a) of the formal sacrificial feats held in honour of false gods
1b) of avarice, as a worship of Mammon
2) in the plural, the vices springing from idolatry and peculiar to it
Part of Speech: noun feminine
an idol can be anything that comes between us and God. JS has given a different version of who God the Father and His Son are. It is the truth that sets us free. How can we be free when we do not believe what the bible says? And if we do not know God, He will not know us.

 

[Jane_Doe]

It is all we need.
2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So you think God should shut up?
See, that just doesn't make sense to me. Why would a person not rejoice in continual communication with an unchanging deity?

 

[mmksparbud]

So you think God should shut up?
See, that just doesn't make sense to me. Why would a person not rejoice in continual communication with an unchanging deity?

Of course not!! But like you said----unchanging. His word is His word. It doesn't change--it can not go from "before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." to, God the Father had a Father, and we will be gods, too.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Of course not!! But like you said----unchanging. His word is His word. It doesn't change--it can not go from "before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." to, God the Father had a Father, and we will be gods, too.

Is there any point in talking about an idea you can be LDS 100% in good standing and totally disagree with?
(The idea I'm talking about here is the entire not-scripture King Follet Discourse)

 

[fatboys]

Of course not!! But like you said----unchanging. His word is His word. It doesn't change--it can not go from "before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." to, God the Father had a Father, and we will be gods, too.

Why are you taking this literal and the trinity as figurative? We have showed you verse after verse that they are not one in some as massive spirit blob.

 

[mmksparbud]

Why are you taking this literal and the trinity as figurative? We have showed you verse after verse that they are not one in some as massive spirit blob.

What????---I've said before---There are 3--God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit---but there is only 1 God. I never said they were 1 blob. Jesus prayed to His Father, not to Himself. The Father is the destination--Jesus is the journey. The Father had no Father---before Him there was no other God and there will be no more.

 

[Rescued One]

Why are you taking this literal and the trinity as figurative? We have showed you verse after verse that they are not one in some as massive spirit blob.

You've been reading too much Joseph Smith.

“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372; History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476)

 

[Rescued One]

LDS scripture:
Doctrine and Covenants 132
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

Doctrine and Covenants 88
106 And again, another angel shall sound his trump, which is the seventh angel, saying: It is finished; it is finished! The Lamb of God hath overcome and trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.
107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.

It wasn't only the King Follett Sermon that taught that God progressed to godhood. The King Follett Sermon was preached many, many years ago, yet in 1992, it was still believed and taught.

Celestial Marriage: Key to Exaltation

(1-1) INTRODUCTION

The gospel of Jesus Christ teaches that man is an eternal being, made in the image and likeness of God. It also holds that man is a literal child of God and has the potential to, if faithful to divine laws and ordinances, of becoming like his heavenly parent. These truths are generally well understood by Latter-day Saints.

Less well understood, however, is the fact that God is an exalted man who once lived on an earth and underwent experiences of mortality. The Prophet Joseph Smith refers to this as “the great secret.” (Times and Seasons 5:613[15 Aug. 1844]. See also Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345.) The progression of our Father in heaven to godhood, or exaltation, was strictly in accordance with eternal principles, for he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.” (D&C 88:22.)

By definition, exaltation includes the ability to procreate the family unit throughout eternity. This our Father in heaven has power to do. His marriage partner is our mother in heaven. We are their spirit children, born to them in the bonds of celestial marriage.

The Lord would have all his children attain exaltation, but men must have their agency. Only those who subscribe by ordinance and by faithful adherence to covenant are worthy of “a continuation of seeds forever and ever.” (D&C 132:19.)

GOD WAS ONCE A MORTAL MAN

(1-2) He Lived on an Earth like Our Own

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power was to make himself visible,–I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form–like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.” (Smith, Teachings, p. 345.)

(1-3) He Experienced Conditions Similar to Our Own and Advanced Step by Step

“Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point where He now is. “Is this really possible?” Why, my dear friends, how would you like to be governed by a ruler who has not been through all the vicissitudes of life that are common to us mortals? If he had not suffered, how could he sympathize with the distress of others? If he himself had not endured the same, how could he sympathize and be touched with the feelings of our infirmities? He could not, unless he himself had passed through the same ordeal, overcome, and overcome step by step.” (Orson Hyde in JD, 1:123.)

GOD IS NOW AN EXALTED MAN WITH POWERS OF ETERNAL INCREASE...
Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, copyright 1976, 1992, by Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 129

Consider these comments:

We are the offspring of God, and God in these last days has seen fit to place us in communication with himself. He has, through the revelations of himself and of his Son Jesus Christ, by the ministry of holy angels and by the restoration of the holy priesthood which emanates from God, and by which he himself is governed, placed us in a position whereby we can fulfil the object of our creation.
Teachings of Presidents of the Church, John Taylor, Chapter 1, The Origin and Destiny of Man, p. 1
(Published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Salt Lake City, Utah)
https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/35969_eng.pdf?lang=eng

Through [Christ] mankind are brought into communion and communication with God; through His atonement they are enabled, as He was, to vanquish death; through that atonement and the power of the Priesthood associated therewith, they become heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ, and inheritors of thrones, powers, principalities and dominions in the eternal worlds. And instead of being subject to death, when that last enemy shall be destroyed, and death be swallowed up in victory, through that atonement they can become the fathers and mothers of lives, and be capable of perpetual and eternal progression.7
Teachings of Presidents of the Church, John Taylor, Chapter 1, The Origin and Destiny of Man, p. 5-6

 

[Peter1000]

There is nothing in the bible about the Father having a Father,

Yes there is, I personally showed you and you personally rejected this information. So what you have to say is:
Mormons say there is scriptural proof of this, but I have rejected their biblical proof.

there is nothing in the bible about us having existed before we were born,

Yes there is, I have personally given you many bible proofs about this subject. You have simply rejected the information that I gave you. So you have to say: Mormons have given me much biblical information on this subject, but I have rejected all that they say.

there is nothing in the bible about going to some planet where men will have multiple wives and have children and attain Godhood,

Yes there is, I have personally given you many biblical proofs about this subject. You have simply rejected anything that I have given you from the bible. So you have to say: The Mormons have given me much proof from the bible about this subject, but I have rejected every word of biblical proofs that they gave me.

It's not because there is no proof in the bible of these things, it is that you reject even the most clearly articulated scriptures that are presented to you.

 

[mmksparbud]

No there isn't. You guys read into the scriptures what you want it to say. You bend His word and give your meanings to the simplest of scriptures that clearly have nothing to do with what you want them to say, It is obvious, and there is nothing that is going to change that for you.
There is no way that this verse means we existed before we were born
Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

There is no way that this verse means Adam and Eve could not procreate and have children until after the fall and Satan made it possible for us!!

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The verses you gave about God having a Father and having been human before He became God, likewise do not say that, but you see only what you want to see.
Those who have come out of Mormonism finally see it and don't understand how they could have been so blind, but that is human nature. I must leave you to your own fantasies and pray someday your eyes will be opened. Even God walks way from those that turn to their own falsehoods.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[fatboys]

No there isn't. You guys read into the scriptures what you want it to say. You bend His word and give your meanings to the simplest of scriptures that clearly have nothing to do with what you want them to say, It is obvious, and there is nothing that is going to change that for you.
There is no way that this verse means we existed before we were born
Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

There is no way that this verse means Adam and Eve could not procreate and have children until after the fall and Satan made it possible for us!!

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The verses you gave about God having a Father and having been human before He became God, likewise do not say that, but you see only what you want to see.
Those who have come out of Mormonism finally see it and don't understand how they could have been so blind, but that is human nature. I must leave you to your own fantasies and pray someday your eyes will be opened. Even God walks way from those that turn to their own falsehoods.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Oh wo this is the tea pot calling the kettle black

 

[Peter1000]

mmksparbud,

Answer 1 question about Job 38:3-11:
Here is the text:
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

God was talking to Job and ask him a question. Here is the question:
Where was he when God did all the things in verses 3-11?
The answer is not given, but that is not the point. The point and pertinent question is: When did the things in verses 3-11 take place?

So the question is again: When did the things that God did in verses 3-11 take place?

Include in your answer 1 of the following:
1) before the earth was created?
2) while the earth was being created, but before it was finished?
3) after the earth was completed?

Thank you.