Black Sheep Alliance

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

What to look for in a vibrant and living church.

Spent some time this morning thinking what would be signs of a life lived following Christ in a Church fellowship.

I think all of us have walked into church at its potentially and sometimes worse so I pondered what would be church at its best.

Now churches have times when they are more in sync with following Christ than others just as we are but overall the love of Christ should be the motivating reason for the community of believers meeting together. I think it would best be demonstrated;

• When making and supporting disciples matters far more than the church 'programme' and planning strategies.

• When the huge majority treat following Christ as an adventure to be lived and not simply meetings to be organised.

• When people are mysteries to be loved and not problems that need to be tidied up and solved

• When the greatest amount of energy is spent in really living for Christ and not in analysing life

Anyone else got any ideas of how Church could offer a better form of 'fellowship' today especially to meet the needs of ex(insert path of old choice)?

Oh yes, yes ... everything you said above was GREAT!! Here's my tuppence......

• forget the "gatekeepers". make ministries get-involve-able-with to newcomers without making them jump through legalistic hoops -- remember newcomer does not necessarily equate with "newbie" either in Christ or in Life -- and new in Christ doesn't equate with spiritually inept, either (just look @ Paul)
• alternatively offer support for new ministries -- God DOES still give people IDEAS and VISIONS to run with!!!
• Better yet, do BOTH! Make your work for the Lord open to those who want to be involved AND make room for new work to be started
• scrap the Bible studies arranged to lead to iron-chained foregone doctrinal conclusions. Let's open up the Word and FEAST and SEE where the SPIRIT leads us.
• forget the cliques, bring on the love. make every "challenge" a new opportunity to STRETCH and EXPAND the limits of tolerance and inclusion in the Lord.
• more prayer and ministering in gifts of the Spirit on a regular, ongoing basis. an environment safe for people to grow in that.
• there's only one HEAD. so let's ACT like it, shall we? no mini demi-lords running around, no petty human harrumphings stifling thought, stifling energy, dragging the train, wagging the dog, etc.

I'll have to give this more thought. My experience with church is admittedly REALLY limited -- mainly SDA (never again) with a brief rather bizarre smattering of (very unstable) pentecostals which lasted about 4 months. I don't think I know what a sane church looks like -- I'm reasoning backwards from what I'd LIKE to find!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Five seconds was enough.......

I am still involved in 'dark practises' cos I read secular books and use the brain God gave me.

Critical anlyses and the average christian just do not go together.

GAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

 

[Tenebrae]

I wonder about the idea of having a forum with no moderation. I mean of course, having people there to deal with the flagrant spammers, and people who sign up to post porn pics, however I really do wonder if that would be a viable option

One thing the modern church can do, is that if they ask an 'ex' for information about their former path or for information on the occult, to not turn around and then reject it, because its not sordid enough

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I think it's impossible to avoid ALL moderation, especially if you have the goal of creating a forum where people enjoy interaction and discussion and you don't want that spoiled by an incongruous element (someone who is pushy or coercive with their views, or flames others, etc.) Just like a peaceful atmosphere must be kept by weeding out disturbance and noise. Balancing open-armed inclusiveness and a distinct experiential fellowship goal in the same space is VERY tricky indeed, whether online or in person. On the one hand, especially in Christ, you don't want to close the door on a soul in need. On the other hand, especially in Christ, you don't want to wreck the peace and refuge already in progress for the other souls in need who were there first, particularly when they might be seeking to escape the specific attitude problems or behavioral issues a newcomer is toting in his or her "baggage" when they come.

It's NOT an easy line to walk by ANY means.

 

[icedtea]

With "shorts" in between that come off like Mike Warnke on crack. Yes.

I would pay to see that! Not really, but just a manic episode.

May I suggest a non denominational church?

p.s. Do I belong here? I was seriously involved in astrology and I know thats occult. I was too scared to get into anything else.
I have much to learn about many things, and you guys Here seem smart,wise,understanding, etc.

 

[Tenebrae]

I would pay to see that! Not really, but just a manic episode.

May I suggest a non denominational church?

p.s. Do I belong here? I was seriously involved in astrology and I know thats occult. I was too scared to get into anything else.
I have much to learn about many things, and you guys Here seem smart,wise,understanding, etc.

Cant speak for the others, however I would say jump in HD

 

[icedtea]

This thread is now in HD-high definition.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

You're welcome here HD.

 

[vespasia]

I wonder about the idea of having a forum with no moderation. I mean of course, having people there to deal with the flagrant spammers, and people who sign up to post porn pics, however I really do wonder if that would be a viable option

Yes there used to be one, it was called the ex-occultists forum BUT it was a bit of a bear trap, trolls, spammers, stupid as opposed to ignorant Christians and the lack of all moderation was FOUL.

One thing the modern church can do, is that if they ask an 'ex' for information about their former path or for information on the occult, to not turn around and then reject it, because its not sordid enough

Or if we are honest because it is so outside what they expected they cannot cope.
If I explain the 'niceties of the 'reality' of being sanguine most look ill and pretty sick. Its simply sad and sordid not romantic.
If I explain the concepts of magick they would be out of their depth in a dry puddle but it has allowed me to understand why they have such a hammer it with a large shovel approach to practioners. They fear something they have no comprehension of; those who had the honesty to turn around and say 'We have not a clue but we believe its wrong because God said this' with a full expounded reason now those were people worth listening to.
Open forums are just that WIDE open to the web.
Forums do NOT replace having face to face fellowship with a good Christians fellowship. That for any ex- (insert path of stupid old choice) is vital.

HowardDean,
There are only two things I ask;
Do not leave your brain behind when you log in to use this small thread and
Be honest, be yourself.

I may have chosen to dive deep into the *delete* * delete* *delete* * more broad vernacular Anglo-Saxon expressive language* ABYSS *spits* BUT I also know that those who tread on the shore line gently dabbling their toes can be hurt and spiked by something nasty that was hiding just below the sand with its spikes up.

I would not say you were scared to get involved in anything else , you simply had more self preservation and good for you! I would not wish the stuff I remember doing on ANYONE.

HD + αω = ∞welcome

 

[izarya]

Here is an interesting article on Deliverance.

It is called How Deliverance Ministries Lead People to Bondage by Bob DeWaay, an ex deliverance minister who is now senior pastor over a church in Twin Peaks.

Here's an excerpt:

Those who hold to the warfare worldview claim that knowledge about Satan, his emissaries, and their hierarchical structure is important in winning the battle. This is true on all levels, from battling principalities over nations to casting demons out of individuals. For example, when I was in this movement we were seeking to purchase property in one of the suburbs here in the Twin Cities. Because of difficulties with the purchase, we decided to hold an all night intercessory meeting. During the middle of the night, someone got a revelation that a principality called “Manitou” was ruling over the city, keeping us from buying the property. This principality supposedly ruled because Native Americans had practiced their religion there at one time. So we were instructed by our leaders that we needed to cast down the spirit of Manitou over the city so that we could claim it for God. The successful finishing of the purchase “proved” that our prayers had been effective which consequently reinforced the idea that we needed special revelations to cast down principalities over cites.

 

[icedtea]

I ALSO RENOUNCE THIS CURSE PLACED ON ME IN JESUS NAME AMEN...and also i will never be 'hungry'for 'your' truth amen....for i am filled with 'LIVING WATER'

1. No curse was placed, this is reality.
2. Our truth is Jesus as Savior!
3. We are filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Tenebrae]

I would like to suggest we all ignore this unwelcome intrusion.

To acknowledge it, as tempting as it may be, will only IMO lead to further unwelcome intrusions. By ignoring the above post and any further posts, we are not buying into the problem

 

[icedtea]

Amen
Wizeone, now I see where you got your username. You are wise.
thank you. Will do.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I'm a little fuzzy on how clubs work on here -- should we be reporting unwanted intrusions and trolling in the expectation they will be dealt with? Or will that only make matters worse? What do you guys think?

 

[icedtea]

Lets discuss with our club here what our club discusses. Thats what I think.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I'd like to ask club members who are willing to hold me up in prayer for the next couple weeks, just whenever you think about it. I've just had an extraordinarily exciting and "mountaintop-like" two weeks or so with the Lord, and I know sometimes right after a good "water walk" we can get distracted and "sink"! Or at the very least as things return to a more even keel it can seem like a letdown, so just pray I will stay close to Him, stay filled with the Spirit and be able to minister to others. OH and that I'll get more sleep, which I need -- I have a bad insomnia habit and lack of sleep can create and/or contribute to all sorts of problems.

Thanks friends!

 

[followjesus777]

Bless you all in JESUS NAME AMEN

 

[icedtea]

I will pray for you, Moriah, you know that! Us black sheep will, we are your sisters in the Lord. God is using you mightily, thats partly why you get 'attacked"! The enemy uses others to fight you and cause discord. Pay no mind.

 

[Tenebrae]

I'd like to ask club members who are willing to hold me up in prayer for the next couple weeks, just whenever you think about it. I've just had an extraordinarily exciting and "mountaintop-like" two weeks or so with the Lord, and I know sometimes right after a good "water walk" we can get distracted and "sink"! Or at the very least as things return to a more even keel it can seem like a letdown, so just pray I will stay close to Him, stay filled with the Spirit and be able to minister to others. OH and that I'll get more sleep, which I need -- I have a bad insomnia habit and lack of sleep can create and/or contribute to all sorts of problems.

Thanks friends!

Definately praying Moriah

I hear what you are saying about the sleep. I know that if I dont sleep, I end up feeling really bad, which in turn further exacerbates other problems. However when I am sleeping well, the other probelms seem alot less severe