Bishop calls for pope francis to convert or step down

[CrystalDragon]

I understand. But I disagree. It wasn't a nice history. And the facts I give are only the tip of the iceberg. I do not even mention involvement of Catholic church in a bad way in the world politics throughout her history.

Well, Jesus did not create the Catholic or Orthodox or Baptist or whatever church organisation. They are all but human creations, of blind proud humans far from Jesus. Our Lord created a global body of true believers and followers of His. They exist in all so-called "churches" and apart from them. All human churches are full of imposters. The true worldwide ecclesia is built on the rock of Peter that will withstand the attack of the gates of hell.

Jesus didn't teach to pray to His mother. Only to Heavenly Father, who is God. But only once I was at a Catholic mass, and before its commencement they chanted Hail Mary a few dozens times... It's very sad.

I'm Catholic—Catholics don't worship Mary if that's what you're thinking. We pray to her for intercession, it's like when you ask a friend to pray for you and they say they will.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

But especially in the Old Testament God was in control of all things both good and evil. Satan wasn't "in charge of evil" until the New Testament. And in any case, if God is in control and everything happens according to his plan, then whatever influence Satan has must be part of it too for some reason.

True. But it's not a problem of God's lack love or intentional setting up for sure failure of weak creation. It's a chance to be free of your own will. It's the best gift you and I can ever have.

 

[CrystalDragon]

True. But it's not a problem of God's lack love or intentional setting up for sure failure of weak creation. It's a chance to be free of your own will. It's the best gift you and I can ever have.

People can be shown love with no "set up to fail" situation and still be free to choose.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I'm Catholic—Catholics don't worship Mary if that's what you're thinking. We pray to her for intercession, it's like when you ask a friend to pray for you and they say they will.

I understand well. This, and many other traditions aren't what Jesus was teaching. And He's the LORD, not failing humans claiming they know something about God.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

People can be shown love with no "set up to fail" situation and still be free to choose.

I guess so. Not in our world, though. There is hard reality. We may deny the current situation or blame God for creating it, it doesn't change reality the least bit. Sin and Satan still exist. Closing one's eyes doesn't make the world suddenly disappear.

 

[RDKirk]

Old ugly crones were offed with the same kind of regularity. That is part of the history too. Going after rich people, especially rich Jews, and absconding their money after their trials, was part of the witching years too.
The witch trials, and the Inquisition, were not so much a Catholic phenomena, but a phenomena that arose out of the Reformation, where religious schisms caused huge amounts of trust and paranoia on all sides. Salem, the most famous American witch story, had nary a Catholic in sight.
For most of Catholic history, including the last two or three centuries, witch trials are just simply not a part of the Catholic story at all. To therefore define your understanding of Catholicism around this chapter would be like defining Buddhism as a war-like religion based on that one brief period in its history of Buddhist expansion and imperialism.

This is true. And I'm not Catholic.

I do think, however, viewing from the outside, that it's extremely dangerous for Catholics to form any opinions of the Pope with regard to national politics and government policies.

The Body of Christ is supranational--and Roman Catholics should understand that better than anyone--and what is righteous for the universal Church worldwide might not be right in the eyes of any political body, might not even be right for any particular government.

 

[SolomonVII]

This is true. And I'm not Catholic.

I do think, however, viewing from the outside, that it's extremely dangerous for Catholics to form any opinions of the Pope with regard to national politics and government policies.

The Body of Christ is supranational--and Roman Catholics should understand that better than anyone--and what is righteous for the universal Church worldwide might not be right in the eyes of any political body, might not even be right for any particular government.

In my opinion, the current pope is way too political. That is why his legacy to this point has been one of divisiveness within the body of Catholic believers.
I don't begrudge Baptists or any Christians being critical of Catholic history for having been too political. That very much has been a part of the legacy especially of the Church of Rome, but of Constantinople too, before the Ottomans at any rate. It took centuries for Christians to find a better way to regulate their political affairs in such a way that the freedom Christ bought for us is truly free, and that is a gift that many Catholics respect very much too.
The gift that Catholics have been left with from our past is an authoratative teaching. There is much assurance in having certainty about who Christ is. The bane of authority is the descent into authoritarianism. When it is not dangerous, it is is simply wrong.
Fortunately it is not a part of the Christian teaching, and even Catholics are obligated to make free choices against abuses of power from the Catholic ecclesiastical hierarchy.

 

[SolomonVII]

I gave it to you. I can elaborate. True parent is one. It's our God. It's answer from the Lord Jesus Christ. And it's very true.

But what is the term that you use for the man who is tapping your mother, if not daddy?
Really, it is a simple question.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

But what is the term that you use for the man who is tapping your mother, if not daddy?
Really, it is a simple question.

The real question is, what is truth. And you can only find it from God's son Jesus Christ.

My physical parents have passed in a very tragic way, by the way. There is no "is" anymore.

 

[SolomonVII]

The real question is, what is truth. And you can only find it from God's son Jesus Christ.

My physical parents have passed in a very tragic way, by the way.

That is so sad. But what did you call them?
Well, I that if you were going to answer that, you would have already.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

That is so sad. But what did you call them?
Well, I that if you were going to answer that, you would have already.

Our Lord Jesus said, we have one true Father in heaven, the Creator of this world.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

This is true. And I'm not Catholic.

I do think, however, viewing from the outside, that it's extremely dangerous for Catholics to form any opinions of the Pope with regard to national politics and government policies.

The Body of Christ is supranational--and Roman Catholics should understand that better than anyone--and what is righteous for the universal Church worldwide might not be right in the eyes of any political body, might not even be right for any particular government.

Give to Caesar what is Ceasar's and to God what is God's. The human social formations and God's Kingdom do not correlate.

 

[SolomonVII]

Our Lord Jesus said, we have one true Father in heaven, the Creator of this world.

Amen to that, brother in Christ. Spoken like a true Catholic.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Wow how far has this thread been derailed... this is crazy

How could you expect differently with ALL of the trolls having access. It was guaranteed to attract anti-Catholic posters doing their anti-Catholic thing. It just took a few days before they arrived. Expect worse to come.

 

[Vicomte13]

i am wagering my eternal life on this and if i am wrong i am going to hell.

Only if God agrees with that particular doctrine.

He doesn't. So actually, you THINK you're wagering your eternal life on this, but you're wrong on two counts: you're wrong that Francis is not Pope - he is - and you're wrong that you are therefore going to hell because you think he's not. He is pope, and you're not going to hell for disagreeing. God simply doesn't care as passionately about these details of church politics as you do.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

How could you expect differently with ALL of the trolls having access. It was guaranteed to attract anti-Catholic posters doing their anti-Catholic thing. It just took a few days before they arrived. Expect worse to come.

Pro-Jesus proclaimers, to be exact.

 

[Goatee]

The holy spirit will guide a conclave if the cardinal electors are open to his insperation. But even before the conclave a certain group of modernist cardinals were conspiring behind closed doors to over throw pope benedict and elect bergoglio and incured automatic excommunication upon themselves and bergoglio who was complicit in the plot.

You have proof of that of course?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'm Catholic—Catholics don't worship Mary if that's what you're thinking. We pray to her for intercession, it's like when you ask a friend to pray for you and they say they will.

The two seem far away from each other until you read what God thinks of praying to anyone but Him. What does God say. I am a jealous God.

Remember Jesus was God and although Mary His mother, God is not partial so you bark up the necromancy tree and making her a God by praying to her. God is clear. Only Him.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Pro-Jesus proclaimers, to be exact.

I have no problem at all with my brother pro-Jesus proclaimers. But there is a different sort out there, either confused or malicious, who enjoy attacking the Catholic Church. Such people sully their proclamation of Jesus.

 

[CrystalDragon]

The two seem far away from each other until you read what God thinks of praying to anyone but Him. What does God say. I am a jealous God.

Remember Jesus was God and although Mary His mother, God is not partial so you bark up the necromancy tree and making her a God by praying to her. God is clear. Only Him.

I wonder why God would have a reason to be jealous anyway. And we don't make Mary a god by praying to her. Ever asked a friend "Could you pray for me?" It's like that. Those in heaven are just closer to God.