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Bishop calls for pope francis to convert or step down

fide

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Folks,
I am not a Catholic but I admire Pope Francis. He seems to be a bit reform minded, which, in my opinion, the church needs in order to attract more followers from the outside. Jesus too was reform minded which brought him into conflict with the religious establishment of his days.
Consider the following statement attributed to Pope Francis: "In a way, the traditional notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious."
God bless

Jesus knew that as a "reformer" He would not be successful no matter how "attractive" He might try to be to His hearers. His success demanded His blood - His death. I suppose it will be that way for the Church, in the end times, as well. His Church will be hated as He was hated, and they will kill us, as they killed Him. The Church predicts exactly that, in the Catholic Catechism:
677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. [Cf. Rev 19:1-9] The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. [Cf Rev 13:8; 20:7-10; 21:2-4] God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgement after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world. [Cf. Rev 20:12 2 Pt 3:12-13]
 
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ChristianFromKazakhstan

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Sorry - "Suit yourself" means "It is your choice to believe as you do." There is usually an implication that the person who says, "Suit yourself" to another, also means to express disagreement. In other words, "I think you are wrong, but you show no openness to change or reconsider, so - believe as you want to believe, but you are wrong."

English is full of brief sayings that do have meaning, but they are not obvious in their meaning.

I see. Thank you for explaining the phrase!
 
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fide

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I see. Thank you for explaining the phrase!

You are welcome; I am glad to help.

Maybe one day you will come to see that the Father in heaven wants you to receive - in His Church - a "father" over the Church. The Father in heaven wants there to be someone who can rule the Church in His name, so that false teachings and false worship do not begin, and do not make His Church filled with errors and false beliefs.

Through the many centuries that His Catholic Church has been on earth, there have been many false teachings that men have tried to get into the Church - but because we have men in authority, who rule the Church on earth, they can stop the false teachings - the heresies - and therefore keep His Gospel holy, pure and true. In this way, the holy Truth of Christ can be defended and protected, all these 2000 years since Christ ascended and left His Holy Spirit to guide the Church through her human rulers - the pope, bishops and priests.
 
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ChristianFromKazakhstan

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You are welcome; I am glad to help.

Maybe one day you will come to see that the Father in heaven wants you to receive - in His Church - a "father" over the Church. The Father in heaven wants there to be someone who can rule the Church in His name, so that false teachings and false worship do not begin, and do not make His Church filled with errors and false beliefs.

Through the many centuries that His Catholic Church has been on earth, there have been many false teachings that men have tried to get into the Church - but because we have men in authority, who rule the Church on earth, they can stop the false teachings - the heresies - and therefore keep His Gospel holy, pure and true. In this way, the holy Truth of Christ can be defended and protected, all these 2000 years since Christ ascended and left His Holy Spirit to guide the Church through her human rulers - the pope, bishops and priests.

All I know about Catholic church is inquisition and burning multitudes beautiful smart women of Europe as witches and also selling indulgentias for sins and worshiping human gods like Mary or saints. Also forced conversions of muslims and judaists to Catholics and killing of Gugenots etc protestants by 100s of thousands in one night.

All of that and perhaps more is far away from Jesus like the east from the west. Papa of Rome is like god, all he says is final divine authority. This is like robbing God of His throne. I have Spirit of God in me, no need in external sinful erroneous papas
 
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SolomonVII

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All I know about Catholic church is inquisition and burning multitudes beautiful smart women of Europe as witches and also selling indulgentias for sins and worshiping human gods like Mary or saints. Also forced conversions of muslims and judaists to Catholics and killing of Gugenots etc protestants by 100s of thousands in one night.

All of that and perhaps more is far away from Jesus like the east from the west. Papa of Rome is like god, all he says is final divine authority. This is like robbing God of His throne. I have Spirit of God in me, no need in external sinful erroneous papas
The inquistion and witch burnings were centuries ago, and most Christian churches at the time were involved.
I was just wondering too, if the ugly dumb women who were burned ought also be worth a mention?
 
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ChristianFromKazakhstan

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The inquistion and witch burnings were centuries ago, and most Christian churches at the time were involved.
I was just wondering too, if the ugly dumb women who were burned ought also be worth a mention?

All kinds of women and men. But as I've read in European historians, usually more attractive and intellectually best females were the first to be exterminated. Like a popular method was a unttractive woman to fight for a man to marry, to spit out needles and claim that a good-looking woman competition used black magic to do that - to get rid of her. Church was quick to burn the poor beauty on the stake as devil helper.
 
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chevyontheriver

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All I know about Catholic church is inquisition and burning multitudes beautiful smart women of Europe as witches and also selling indulgentias for sins and worshiping human gods like Mary or saints. Also forced conversions of muslims and judaists to Catholics and killing of Gugenots etc protestants by 100s of thousands in one night.
You should learn some more about the Catholic Church, particularly before starting off with criticisms. The Spanish inquisition, considered the worst one, was actually far better than the Spanish government court system. A thief who stole some bread and was caught by the government would often curse and blaspheme so the government authorities would be forced to turn the thief over to the inquisition. They knew the inquisition would treat them well, often with a meal before being released with a slap on the wrist. Witch hunts were a big thing among Protestants. The famous Salem Witch Trials were not at all a Catholic thing. Most of the famous witch hunts were Protestant. Selling indulgences was the error of one man who sold them in Germany and after Luther pointed it out the practice was done away with by the council of Trent. We do not worship Mary or the saints. Protestant princes forced the conversion of their Catholic citizens to become Protestant. You would be more likely forced to convert by a Protestant prince than any Jew forced to convert by a Catholic prince. Still no excuse that it ever happened, just that Protestants can first remove the beam in their eye. For centuries it was illegal to be Catholic in places like Britain and the Scandinavian countries. The massacre of the Hugenots was indeed terrible, but it was somewhere between 5000 and 30,000, not 100's of thousands. Not an excuse, but not what your irresponsible number indicates.
All of that and perhaps more is far away from Jesus like the east from the west. Papa of Rome is like god, all he says is final divine authority. This is like robbing God of His throne. I have Spirit of God in me, no need in external sinful erroneous papas
When you start to take history seriously you will get a better picture of the Catholic faith. Much of what you have absorbed about the Catholic faith seems to be naive. If I believed all of that junk I would be anti-Catholic as well. Learn some history.

You might also want to figure out that this discussion had nothing to do with the name 'pope' 'papa' and more to do with some particular discontent among Catholics nervous about the present pope and whether he is intending to ignore the words of Jesus about marriage and divorce and remarriage after divorce. Most Protestants have already ignored the words of Jesus in that regard, With Catholics being among the last to be faithful to Jesus with regard to marriage. Your posting was an unwanted distraction, something easily explained in the context Jesus intended for it. You think you have this great criticism of the Catholic Church. You missed the mark. It was about something bishop Athanasius Schneider said. He is the bishop of Astana Kazakhstan, probably just down the road from you. It might be worth it to understand him, maybe learn something from him.
 
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ChristianFromKazakhstan

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You should learn some more about the Catholic Church, particularly before starting off with criticisms. The Spanish inquisition, considered the worst one, was actually far better than the Spanish government court system. A thief who stole some bread and was caught by the government would often curse and blaspheme so the government authorities would be forced to turn the thief over to the inquisition. They knew the inquisition would treat them well, often with a meal before being released with a slap on the wrist. Witch hunts were a big thing among Protestants. The famous Salem Witch Trials were not at all a Catholic thing. Most of the famous witch hunts were Protestant. Selling indulgences was the error of one man who sold them in Germany and after Luther pointed it out the practice was done away with by the council of Trent. We do not worship Mary or the saints. Protestant princes forced the conversion of their Catholic citizens to become Protestant. You would be more likely forced to convert by a Protestant prince than any Jew forced to convert by a Catholic prince. Still no excuse that it ever happened, just that Protestants can first remove the beam in their eye. For centuries it was illegal to be Catholic in places like Britain and the Scandinavian countries. The massacre of the Hugenots was indeed terrible, but it was somewhere between 5000 and 30,000, not 100's of thousands. Not an excuse, but not what your irresponsible number indicates.
When you start to take history seriously you will get a better picture of the Catholic faith. Much of what you have absorbed about the Catholic faith seems to be naive. If I believed all of that junk I would be anti-Catholic as well. Learn some history.

You might also want to figure out that this discussion had nothing to do with the name 'pope' 'papa' and more to do with some particular discontent among Catholics nervous about the present pope and whether he is intending to ignore the words of Jesus about marriage and divorce and remarriage after divorce. Most Protestants have already ignored the words of Jesus in that regard, With Catholics being among the last to be faithful to Jesus with regard to marriage. Your posting was an unwanted distraction, something easily explained in the context Jesus intended for it. You think you have this great criticism of the Catholic Church. You missed the mark. It was about something bishop Athanasius Schneider said. He is the bishop of Astana Kazakhstan, probably just down the road from you. It might be worth it to understand him, maybe learn something from him.

No papa's. Very clear from Jesus.
 
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SolomonVII

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All kinds of women and men. But as I've read in European historians, usually more attractive and intellectually best females were the first to be exterminated. Like a popular method was a unttractive woman to fight for a man to marry, to spit out needles and claim that a good-looking woman competition used black magic to do that - to get rid of her. Church was quick to burn the poor beauty on the stake as devil helper.
Old ugly crones were offed with the same kind of regularity. That is part of the history too. Going after rich people, especially rich Jews, and absconding their money after their trials, was part of the witching years too.
The witch trials, and the Inquisition, were not so much a Catholic phenomena, but a phenomena that arose out of the Reformation, where religious schisms caused huge amounts of trust and paranoia on all sides. Salem, the most famous American witch story, had nary a Catholic in sight.
For most of Catholic history, including the last two or three centuries, witch trials are just simply not a part of the Catholic story at all. To therefore define your understanding of Catholicism around this chapter would be like defining Buddhism as a war-like religion based on that one brief period in its history of Buddhist expansion and imperialism.
 
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DrBubbaLove

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Folks,
I am not a Catholic but I admire Pope Francis. He seems to be a bit reform minded, which, in my opinion, the church needs in order to attract more followers from the outside. Jesus too was reform minded which brought him into conflict with the religious establishment of his days.
Consider the following statement attributed to Pope Francis: "In a way, the traditional notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious."
God bless
Another good example of a getting quotes and news from FACEBOOK. Even WIKI correctly states the above misquote is not attributable to a Pope.

I rather wish non-Catholics would concern themselves less with judging a man they do not only not know but desperately want to see as so wrong and instead allow Catholics to correctly represent themselves and their Pope if they happen to have questions about someone's FACEBOOK post or opinion or article misquoting a Pope for questionable purpose/reason.
 
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ChristianFromKazakhstan

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Old ugly crones were offed with the same kind of regularity. That is part of the history too. Going after rich people, especially rich Jews, and absconding their money after their trials, was part of the witching years too.
The witch trials, and the Inquisition, were not so much a Catholic phenomena, but a phenomena that arose out of the Reformation, where religious schisms caused huge amounts of trust and paranoia on all sides. Salem, the most famous American witch story, had nary a Catholic in sight.
For most of Catholic history, including the last two or three centuries, witch trials are just simply not a part of the Catholic story at all. To therefore define your understanding of Catholicism around this chapter would be like defining Buddhism as a war-like religion based on that one brief period in its history of Buddhist expansion and imperialism.

No papa's allowed by Jesus and He is the only Lord forever and ever!
 
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mea kulpa

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Folks,
I am not a Catholic but I admire Pope Francis. He seems to be a bit reform minded, which, in my opinion, the church needs in order to attract more followers from the outside. Jesus too was reform minded which brought him into conflict with the religious establishment of his days.
Consider the following statement attributed to Pope Francis: "In a way, the traditional notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious."
God bless


Jesus was a restorationist not a reformist.

He restored us to eternal life.. he did not reform us to eternal life
 
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