Birth control.

[Brooklyn Knight]

...Yeah, we definitely are so much better than those "fools" on CAF.

 

[benedictaoo]

Michie, then what are you doing this for? you talked like a protestant who can not accept in full what Catholicism is about. I am sorry but yes, technically you may be able to say, you don't have to have devotion to the Saints or Mary but why wouldn't you? if you keep coloring inside the lines and keep playing it safe, you will never grow and that is the truth and I say tis to MikeK as well. It's not judgmental like tallguy who don't get it thinks. its a fact. how do you think the saints got to be saints? Not by playing it safe and
thinking, well I do not have to believe that... Jesus is enough... that is so protestanty Michie.

 

[benedictaoo]

I would prefer to have authors who are Catholic converts, NOT cradle Catholics.

They have an experience that is invaluable for Catholic-seekers, they understand what it's like to be an outside of the Church, something cradle Catholics will never be able to full grasp. We don't have the luxury of being brought up into something from birth, Scott Hahn described his experience as having to "reconstruct the wheel", or in other words, challenge many of the things he thought he knew, and reconcile many new viewpoints and perspectives.

It's not anyone's fault, that's just the way it is.

then stick to the apologists cuz that is what they are. converts to the faith.

 

[Michie]

Is it even possibly to follow every devotion with enough devotion to do them justice? Of course not, there are just too many. But I guess choosing which ones speak to us and leaving the rest for others makes us "pickers and choosers" who have "regressed into Protestantism."

I'm devoted to the Divine Mercy chaplet...not the rosary so much. I like St Anthony but I don't live his lifestyle. I find many saints inspirational & other I cannot relate to. All the saints followed Christ under the wings of the Church just like I do in my way. I'm not saying it is either or. That you have to reject a Saint to follow Christ. I'm not understanding what I said that is so awful.

 

[Michie]

Michie, then what are you doing this for? you talked like a protestant who can not accept in full what Catholicism is about. I am sorry but yes, technically you may be able to say, you don't have to have devotion to the Saints or Mary but why wouldn't you? if you keep coloring inside the lines and keep playing it safe, you will never grow and that is the truth and I say tis to MikeK as well. It's not judgmental like tallguy who don't get it thinks. its a fact. how do you think the saints got to be saints? Not by playing it safe and
thinking, well I do not have to believe that... Jesus is enough... that is so protestanty Michie.

I did not say anything about not believing anything the saints did. I said I don't have to take a private revelation & apply it to my faith life. I don't know how you are reading what I'm not saying. I respect & love Mary & the saints but I do not have to follow their beliefs that come from private revelation & practices. What is wrong with that? I think the RCC agrees with me.

 

[benedictaoo]

I thought I made myself clear but I guess not. I don't believe I've said anything wrong. People in the Church have much to choose from as far as devotions & practice goes.

Michie, you are crawfishing back now form what you were doing originally which was to water down for the visitor in hopes of keeping them on the line.

You definitely said we can ignore the saints if we don't like what they say. I guess you can but IMO, that would just be stupid. because they have a lot to offer if you are striving to be holy, not just stay out of hell

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

I was a happy Catholic until I started reading about the Saints, about how we venerate people who elected to be killed instead of allow themselves to be raped, about how certain Saints preached that virtually everyone was going to hell, about some of St Louis DeMontfort's um, interesting, statements about Mary, about the Saints who argued to length about the condition of Mary's hymen after the birth of Jesus and so on. The more I read, the less sense it all made. I'd bail on the whole thing, but I'd hate to be wrong and be tortured forever. I don't really desire heaven, but I'd like very much to avoid hell.

Man, some of the reasons people remain Catholic is just sad and depressing. At least it's not as bad as someone else who said they are Catholic just for the sole fact to irritate other Catholics.

 

[Michie]

Michie, you are crawfishing back now form what you were doing originally which was to water down for the visitor in hopes of keeping them on the line.

You definitely said we can ignore the saints if we don't like what they say. I guess you can but IMO, that would just be stupid. because they have a lot to offer if you are striving to be holy, not just stay out of hell

Show me where I said you can ignore the saints.

 

[benedictaoo]

A quick re cap- irenaeus said to read the lives of the saints, (something I said actually to but you disagreed with me) and have devotions... lol and he's a god to you and Mike said that is what got him into trouble and then fire says oh, no is that Tradition? and oyu say this.

No. They are private revelations only meant for them. Usually medieval stuff. God speaks to each one in terms they can understand. I know... the witness sucks here.

You totally watered them down for his sake. Its not really true Michie.

 

[benedictaoo]

Michie, the saints were not given messages from some medieval era meant just for them to understand. That is totally wrong.

 

[Michie]

A quick re cap- irenaeus said to read the lives of the saints, (something I said actually to but you disagreed with me) and have devotions... lol and he's a god to you and Mike said that is what got him into trouble and then fire says oh, no is that Tradition? and oyu say this.

You totally watered them down for his sake. Its not really true Michie.

It's private revelations. Nothing to do with ignoring the Saints. I didn't water anything down. I stated fact. You are trying to argue something that was never an issue to begin with.

 

[Michie]

Michie, the saints were not given messages from some medieval era meant just for them to understand. That is totally wrong.

I didn't say that either. Again, private revelations.

 

[benedictaoo]

okay what ever, I'm done. Don't own it, I don't care... I really don't.

 

[Michie]

okay what ever, I'm done. Don't own it, I don't care... I really don't.

I'm not going to own something I didn't say.

 

[Tallguy88]

I'm not going to own something I didn't say.

I'll own what I said.

I don't believe some of the more outlandish "visions" of some of the saints. If they say stuff that clearly goes against the Bible, or Tradition, then I don't see much use for it. Doesn't mean that the saint didn't live a godly and holy life. Just means that I'll stick to the spirituality that moves me.

 

[benedictaoo]

No. They are private revelations only meant for them. Usually medieval stuff. God speaks to each one in terms they can understand. I know... the witness sucks here.

you said they are words only meant for them and some mideval stuff. Not true. At all. You implied that we can ignore them based on this explanation of what? God speaks to each in term they can understand.. um, no. not true.

 

[benedictaoo]

and then you say that our witness sucks? Mike is right, you promote feelgoodolgy. That is not Catholic. so do not say I am a bad witness when I tell people the truth and the reality.

 

[benedictaoo]

I'll own what I said.

I don't believe some of the more outlandish "visions" of some of the saints. If they say stuff that clearly goes against the Bible, or Tradition, then I don't see much use for it. Doesn't mean that the saint didn't live a godly and holy life. Just means that I'll stick to the spirituality that moves me.

you do not know what you are talking about... just sayin'.

 

[Tallguy88]

you do not know what you are talking about... just sayin'.

Really? So if I don't believe that Jesus was really about to destroy the world until St. Faustina begged him not to, I'm just some kind of heretic?

 

[Michie]

you said they are words only meant for them and some mideval stuff. Not true. At all. You implied that we can ignore them based on this explanation of what? God speaks to each in term they can understand.. um, no. not true.

Private Revelations are usually that, private if it were not a canonized saint. Private revelations are meant for the person receiving them in ways they can relate to. Does not mean I'm going to relate to it. It was not meant for me. The further back you go with Saints & some of these private revelations, like in medieval times the more the private revelations seem to match that mindset, time, & culture.

And many of these revelations contradict each other. You can disagree all you want. These are my observations & feelings on what I have read. And the Church does not disagree with me in choosing to disregard these as they have no use in my spiritual life. That does not equal going protestant, being a faux catholic, or me having no place in the Church because I should not be Catholic. It does not imply that the saint should be ignored or they have no use in my spiritual life. It means what I said concerning private revelations & times they were given in & how some revelations reflect that. Dredging up bizarre private revelations that hold no obligations to anyone especially to a seeker asking questions about birth control seem pretty fruitless to me. Especially when it has nothing to do with the OP.

So you can chose to think I'm waffling but I can assure you I am not because I did not say or have the intent anything that you accused me of. I think that's pretty clear in this thread for those not wanting to argue for the heck of it.

So there is nothing to argue here but I think your true feelings are pretty clear as far as me being Catholic. I'm cool with that. *shrug*