Birth control.

[Michie]

that is not exactly true Michie.

You don't have to take the saints visions if you choose not to. I think some appeared mentally ill. But I also take into context the times they were living in. Some things the Church acknowledges St. Faustina, St. Therese but visions of this & that...not really. You don't have to take it all as something we need to apply to our faith.

 

[benedictaoo]

About the Saints and hellfire. A) I don't fear hell.... that has never ben my motivation to do or not do anything. I do what is right because it's right, not because of I don't want to go t hell. I do not have a fear of hell, never did. I know God knows me and knows why we do what we do and I trust that.

B) The saints are an example for us that some folks are the real deal. They go down a road that is so narrow and they aren't fakes that live in some delusional world thinking they are something they aren't. I do not know about any visions of hell and every body going there but I do not have any problems with the Saints who go that extra mile like St. Maria Goretti. They keep my faith. if it weren't for them being real and not fakes, I would have lost it a long time ago.

 

[benedictaoo]

You don't have to take the saints visions if you choose not to. I think some appeared mentally ill. But I also take into context the times they were living in. Some things the Church acknowledges St. Faustina, St. Therese but visions of this & that...not really. You don't have to take it all as something we need to apply to our faith.

they are devotions that we are not obligated to follow but we can't just deny them and their place and role in the Church.

 

[MikeK]

You don't have to take the saints visions if you choose not to. I think some appeared mentally ill. But I also take into context the times they were living in. Some things the Church acknowledges St. Faustina, St. Therese but visions of this & that...not really. You don't have to take it all as something we need to apply to our faith.

I think your statement that Bene objected to was that the visions that Saints shared were meant to be private. Some Saints have claimed that they were told by God to share their visions.

It is not lost on me that our "softest" Saints tend to be our most popular. People prefer to think they're doing we'll rather than be chastised and told to really examine their consciences.

 

[Michie]

About the Saints and hellfire. A) I don't fear hell.... that has never ben my motivation to do or not do anything. I do what is right because it's right, not because of I don't want to go t hell. I do not have a fear of hell, never did. I know God knows me and knows why we do what we do and I trust that.

Most do it because they do not want to be eternally separated from God. They want that relationship. So they follow Him to the best of their ability under the guidance of church teaching.

B) The saints are an example for us that some folks are the real deal. They go down a road that is so narrow and they aren't fakes that live in some delusional world thinking they are something they aren't. I do not know about any visions of hell and every body going there but I do not have any problems with the Saints who go that extra mile like St. Maria Goretti. *snip*

I think most of us feel that way. They are interesting & they are examples but we are not required to emulate their private revelations or practices.

 

[benedictaoo]

well michie, what the heck? what are we all doing here if its not to emulate them? that is the goal we are trying to reach, no? To be holy. To transform the fallen into something beautiful. If we are here just to avoid hell, then no wonder. No wonder.

I feel sad for any Catholic here that is not in this for that and is in this just so they don't go to hell.

 

[Michie]

well michie, what the heck? what are we all doing here if its not to emulate them? that is the goal we are trying to reach, no? To be holy. To transform the fallen into something beautiful. If we are here just to avoid hell, then no wonder. No wonder.

The point is, you do not have to. We are called to follow Jesus. Not Mother Teresa. People can find them inspirational & follow their way if desired but it is not required.

I feel sad for any Catholic here that is not in this for that and is in this just so they don't go to hell.

Paul states in Scripture that we are running a race. The goal is the finish line. A lot of people like to do the right thing but that does not require a belief in God. I'm referring to the fruits of faith. And the desire of faith & that is to be in a loving relationship with God. Not be cut off from Him.

 

[The Fire Rises]

Real quick, do you guys know of other Catholic convert authors besides Scott Hahn and Dr. Kreeft? I'm trying to compile a list and start gathering material to read up on, I think it's time I take a break from this forum. OBOB's a great place for fellow Catholics to meet, discuss and encourage one another. But it's definitely NOT the best place for Catholic seekers/skeptics to get a good handle on the many aspects of Catholic teachings and traditions.

(nothing against anyone here, you've all done the best you can but I think I'm expecting way too much clarity and consistency from online forums at this point)

 

[benedictaoo]

Michie, what do you mean we do not have to? we do not have to go to Calcutta and feed the rejected poor but this level of sacrifice and living it all out is following Jesus. I really do not like that you are down playing and separating Jesus following and theirs. the importance of the saints example is vaild. They are a gift given to us by God for us to follow what is to be a hero, not some lukewarm regular Joe. Their faith was heroic, not mediocre and we ARE to follow this and not rest on our laurels.

So you and Mike are actually on the same page about this. Both y'all need to understand the importance of the ridiculous sacrifices the saints made.

 

[Tallguy88]

I don't Pay much attention to the more "out there" visions. I've got a hard enough time just trying to follow Jesus and the Bible's teachings.

 

[Michie]

Real quick, do you guys know of other Catholic convert authors besides Scott Hahn and Dr. Kreeft? I'm trying to compile a list and start gathering material to read up on, I think it's time I take a break from this forum. OBOB's a great place for fellow Catholics to meet, discuss and encourage one another. But it's definitely NOT the best place for Catholic seekers/skeptics to get a good handle on the many aspects of Catholic teachings and traditions.

(nothing against anyone here, you've all done the best you can but I think I'm expecting way too clarity and consistency much from online forums at this point)

You are wise. The only other convert I can think of offhand is the guy who hosts The Journey Home. Marcus Grodi. I think he does apologetic work as well. You might Google Catholic apologetics & convert as well. You'll probably get a lot of info. I hope you come back to fellowship. Prayers for you on your journey.

 

[benedictaoo]

Y'all should be open to it or you'll never grow.

 

[The Fire Rises]

Many thanks Mitchie : )

You've always been kind to me here, and I appreciate that, as well as your prayers.

Odds are, I'll either be back here as a Catholic, or I won't be back at all.

 

[benedictaoo]

Real quick, do you guys know of other Catholic convert authors besides Scott Hahn and Dr. Kreeft? I'm trying to compile a list and start gathering material to read up on, I think it's time I take a break from this forum. OBOB's a great place for fellow Catholics to meet, discuss and encourage one another. But it's definitely NOT the best place for Catholic seekers/skeptics to get a good handle on the many aspects of Catholic teachings and traditions.

(nothing against anyone here, you've all done the best you can but I think I'm expecting way too much clarity and consistency from online forums at this point)

those are apologetics. is that what you want to read? arguments made for why we are right? If you want theology itself read documents and/or the lives of the saints, or their writings.

 

[Tallguy88]

Michie, what do you mean we do not have to? we do not have to go to Calcutta and feed the rejected poor but this level of sacrifice and living it all out is following Jesus. I really do not like that you are down playing the importance of the saints example They are a gift given to us by God for us to follow what is to be a hero, not some lukewarm regular Joe. Their faith was heroic, not mediocre and we ARE to follow this and not rest on our laurels.

So you and Mike are actually on the same page about this. Both y'all need to understand the importance of the ridiculous sacrifices the saints made.

If I followed the posts correctly, Michie said that the visions and revelations of the saints were private, not that we should downplay the importance of the saints. It is true that all mystic visions since the death of the last apostle have been "private revelation." public revelation is required belief of all the faithful, private is not.

 

[Tallguy88]

Y'all should be open to it or you'll never grow.

What helps one does not necessarily help another. Especially when we're talking about something as personal as spirituality.

 

[benedictaoo]

and Michie, if you are doing what is right then you won't be cut off from God. He is not going to reject someone because they do what is right out of a desire to do what is right because it's well, right. God does not want us to do what is right because we are scared of Him. yeah, love for Him is why we do what is right but doing it because we fear hell... that is so weird to me.

 

[MikeK]

Michie, what do you mean we do not have to? we do not have to go to Calcutta and feed the rejected poor but this level of sacrifice and living it all out is following Jesus. I really do not like that you are down playing and separating Jesus following and theirs. the importance of the saints example is vaild. They are a gift given to us by God for us to follow what is to be a hero, not some lukewarm regular Joe. Their faith was heroic, not mediocre and we ARE to follow this and not rest on our laurels.

So you and Mike are actually on the same page about this. Both y'all need to understand the importance of the ridiculous sacrifices the saints made.

I'm not on the same page with Michie. She embraces feelgoodery, I desire blank cold hard fact. I don't mind discomfort and I hope to be corrected when I err.

 

[Michie]

Many thanks Mitchie : )

You've always been kind to me here, and I appreciate that, as well as your prayers.

Odds are, I'll either be back here as a Catholic, or I won't be back at all.

Well where ever the Lord leads you, feel free to drop in. I've enjoyed your company & you have my prayers. I know how tough this process you are going through is & I feel for you. God bless & keep you close.

 

[Michie]

If I followed the posts correctly, Michie said that the visions and revelations of the saints were private, not that we should downplay the importance of the saints. It is true that all mystic visions since the death of the last apostle have been "private revelation." public revelation is required belief of all the faithful, private is not.

Exactly.