Birth control.

[benedictaoo]

If I followed the posts correctly, Michie said that the visions and revelations of the saints were private, not that we should downplay the importance of the saints. It is true that all mystic visions since the death of the last apostle have been "private revelation." public revelation is required belief of all the faithful, private is not.

It never ceases to amaze me how I always have to explain things to the same people over and over that they already good and well know... now we are arguing over the saints and private revelations? your kidding me right?

One does not have to follow a private revelation, this is true but please tell me, what moron would have a problem following a devotion like the Sacred Heart?

one will never grow if they remain stunted and afraid of the saints.

 

[The Fire Rises]

those are apologetics. is that what you want to read? arguments made for why we are right? If you want theology itself read documents and/or the lives of the saints, or their writings.

I want both, really. Whatever I can get my hands on.

 

[Michie]

Michie, what do you mean we do not have to? we do not have to go to Calcutta and feed the rejected poor but this level of sacrifice and living it all out is following Jesus. I really do not like that you are down playing and separating Jesus following and theirs. the importance of the saints example is vaild. They are a gift given to us by God for us to follow what is to be a hero, not some lukewarm regular Joe. Their faith was heroic, not mediocre and we ARE to follow this and not rest on our laurels.

I made myself clear in my previous post. You do not have to emulate any Saint if you are not led to. You are called to emulate Christ & His teachings under the wings of the Church. Not everyone follows the way of a canonized saint in the RCC. If someone feels inspired they can follow a saint they feel drawn to, become a Franciscan, etc.

So you and Mike are actually on the same page about this. Both y'all need to understand the importance of the ridiculous sacrifices the saints made.

I did not downplay the sacrifices the saints made but I cannot relate to all of them. I won't be eating scabs or pus anytime soon & I'm not required to. A saint's sacrifice is between them & the Lord but I don't have to follow suit.

 

[benedictaoo]

I'm not on the same page with Michie. She embraces feelgoodery, I desire blank cold hard fact. I don't mind discomfort and I hope to be corrected when I err.

okay... well I'm seeing the clear picture here... suffering. don't like the saints because they do not like the truth and want to hide from the visitors of other faiths, that Catholics are called to suffer. You do not want to suffer and sacrifice, then you have no business being Catholic. Bottom line.

I for one have issues because I am not happy with all this suffering and sacrifice I'm being ask to do while others have it easy. St Theresa of I can't remember from where, said if this is how God treats friends, no wonder he doesn't have any. How true but she is just a saint, what does she know?

 

[Michie]

It never ceases to amaze me how I always have to explain things to the same people over and over that they already good and well know... now we are arguing over the saints and private revelations? your kidding me right?

One does not have to follow a private revelation, this is true but please tell me, what moron would have a problem following a devotion like the Sacred Heart?

one will never grow if they remain stunted and afraid of the saints.

Nobody said they were afraid of saints. I ask St. Anthony for prayer but I don't have to copy everything he did. Or believe any private revelations he had.

 

[Tallguy88]

It never ceases to amaze me how I always have to explain things to the same people over and over that they already good and well know... now we are arguing over the saints and private revelations? your kidding me right?

One does not have to follow a private revelation, this is true but please tell me, what moron would have a problem following a devotion like the Sacred Heart?

one will never grow if they remain stunted and afraid of the saints.

Plenty of people seem to do just fine without them.

Stop trying to force your devotions on people who aren't interested.

 

[Michie]

okay... well I'm seeing the clear picture here... suffering. don't like the saints because they do not like the truth and want to hide from the visitors of other faiths, that Catholics are called to suffer. You do not want to suffer and sacrifice, then you have no business being Catholic. Bottom line.

Oh that's silly. Nobody implied that. We do not all suffer & sacrifice in the same way. I'm Catholic & I was accepted into the Church & follow what is required of me & more.

I for one have issues because I am not happy with all this suffering and sacrifice I'm being ask to do while others have it easy. St Theresa of I can't remember from where, said if this is how God treats friends, no wonder he doesn't have any. How true but she is just a saint, what does she know?

We all suffer & go through valleys. Nobody here has gone on this path you keep inferring.

 

[Tallguy88]

And stop being so judgmental about everyone and everything. What kind of witness do you think you're giving here?

 

[benedictaoo]

I made myself clear in my previous post. You do not have to emulate any Saint if you are not led to. You are called to emulate Christ & His teachings under the wings of the Church. Not everyone follows the way of a canonized saint in the RCC. If someone feels inspired they can follow a saint they feel drawn to, become a Franciscan, etc.


I did not downplay the sacrifices the saints made but I cannot relate to all of them. I won't be eating scabs or pus anytime soon & I'm not required to. A saint's sacrifice is between them & the Lord but I don't have to follow suit.

no but you do have to pick up your cross and carry it. why are you even arguing this? The saints were given to you as a gift to show you how to do it and that you can. if you do not want to follow that, that is fine but its not the smartest choice if you choose to be catholic.

 

[Michie]

no but you do have to pick up your cross and carry it. why are you even arguing this?

I'm not. You are.

The saints were given to you as a gift to show you how to do it and that you can. if you do not want to follow that, that is fine but its not the smartest choice if you choose to be catholic.

I find them inspirational for the most part & consider them friends. But like them, I follow Christ.

 

[benedictaoo]

I want both, really. Whatever I can get my hands on.

well read the early Church fathers. You know the saints they these two claim we do not have to follow... lol. Just follow Jesus... look. I'm a catholic through and through. I never went through any convert from other faith thing. I do not have a problem with any of this, so read them. like why wouldn't you?

 

[benedictaoo]

I'm not. You are.


I find them inspirational for the most part & consider them friends. But like them, I follow Christ.

you must be regressing Michie. You have created a popular non Catholic false dichotomy that protestants like to do. there is no dichotomy here. Jesus or the Saints. Give me a break... why are you doing this? You know its really wrong. You need to just stop.

 

[Tallguy88]

well read the early Church fathers. You know the saints they these two claim we do not have to follow... lol. Just follow Jesus... look. I'm a catholic through and through. I never went through any convert from other faith thing. I do not have a problem with any of this, so read them. like why wouldn't you?

Stop lying about me and Michie.

No one said not to follow or read the saints. Stop spreading malicious lies and slander.

All anyone said was that we don't have to believe or practice everything a saint said or did.

 

[Michie]

you must be regressing Michie. You have created a popular non Catholic false dichotomy that protestants like to do. there is no dichotomy here. Jesus or the Saints. Give me a break... why are you doing this? You know its really wrong. You need to just stop.

I don't know why you are speaking to me like this Bene. I never disregarded anything the Church or Saints had to offer & I have not said anything contrary to Church teaching & practice.

 

[The Fire Rises]

I would prefer to have authors who are Catholic converts, NOT cradle Catholics.

They have an experience that is invaluable for Catholic-seekers, they understand what it's like to be an outside of the Church, something cradle Catholics will never be able to full grasp. We don't have the luxury of being brought up into something from birth, Scott Hahn described his experience as having to "reconstruct the wheel", or in other words, challenge many of the things he thought he knew, and reconcile many new viewpoints and perspectives.

It's not anyone's fault, that's just the way it is.

 

[Michie]

Stop lying about me and Michie.

No one said not to follow or read the saints. Stop spreading malicious lies and slander.

All anyone said was that we don't have to believe or practice everything a saint said or did.

I thought I made myself clear but I guess not. I don't believe I've said anything wrong. People in the Church have much to choose from as far as devotions & practice goes.

 

[Tallguy88]

As you can see in this thread, sometimes the cradle Catholics have to remind us converts of our "place."

 

[Michie]

I would prefer to have authors who are Catholic converts, NOT cradle Catholics.

Agreed. You want someone that's taken that step. You can go on to the other things later.

They have an experience that is invaluable for Catholic-seekers, they understand what it's like to be an outside of the Church, something cradle Catholics will never be able to full grasp. We don't have the luxury of being brought up into something from birth, Scott Hahn described his experience as having to "reconstruct the wheel", or in other words, challenge many of the things he thought he knew, and reconcile many new viewpoints and perspectives.

It's not anyone's fault, that's just the way it is.

Amen.

 

[Michie]

As you can see in this thread, sometimes the cradle Catholics have to remind us converts of our "place."

Yep. I remember when I first converted I felt that undercurrent with some. Just for asking questions.

 

[Tallguy88]

I thought I made myself clear but I guess not. I don't believe I've said anything wrong. People in the Church have much to choose from as far as devotions & practice goes.

Is it even possibly to follow every devotion with enough devotion to do them justice? Of course not, there are just too many. But I guess choosing which ones speak to us and leaving the rest for others makes us "pickers and choosers" who have "regressed into Protestantism."