birth control issues - engaged couple

[Rising_Suns]

my blood iron was incredibly low and other health problems were arising from losing so much blood at such a constant rate. this is not something i'm willing to endure by NOT taking the Pill.

Just out of curiousity, if iron deficiency is your problem, you know they make iron vitamins?

 

[Lizzi4Christ]

It's Lizzi, not Lizzie.

I have looked into it a bit. Maybe not enough, and I will more. But as of right now, other methods look more efficiant for my body.

Lizzie4Christ,


I believe you are referring to the rhythm method RM(Spelling?). This is not what I am talking about when I talk about NFP. In your case and millions of other women, you are correct in saying that the RM woudln't work in preventing pregnancy very efficiently. Utilizing NFP would work for any woman, because prior to ovulation your body gives certain signs and symptoms. These signs and symptoms do not occur in woman using HBC for various reasons. Therefore if a lady has been on HBC for an extended period of time she may be completely unaware of these signs and symptoms.

I realize that I may lose credibility for not being a female. But NFP is part of my life. Please read Fireman's Wife posts.

Thank you,

The Fireman

 

[shainamsu]

Just out of curiousity, if iron deficiency is your problem, you know they make iron vitamins?

yep. and i take them. doesn't help a whole lot, but i take them.

 

[Fireman's Wife]

i'm still not positive that this will work for me. the condition i referred to is not simply an irregular period, it's inovulation bleeding. (i know you were responding to someone else, but i quoted you anyway. ) before i began taking the Pill, i was bleeding without a break for several months at a time. my blood iron was incredibly low and other health problems were arising from losing so much blood at such a constant rate. this is not something i'm willing to endure by NOT taking the Pill.

As previously stated, my fiance and I would love to use NFP. i'm just not certain that we're able to.

my doctor feels that this is my only option. if anyone is aware of any other options i may have, please let me know.

(i'm sorry if i grossed anyone out.)

Shainamsu,

No, you did not gross me out. Perhaps do you mean anovulatory bleeding? If so, anovulatory bleeding would indicate that a person may not be ovulating at all or very rarely anyway but yet still be bleeding regulary or in your case quite irregulary. Yes hormonal therapy helps this condition. However, it is completely possible to use NFP with hormonal therapy. I was having some "problems" a few years back and had actually been talking with an NFP physician about hormonal therapy but the problems subsided and I did not have to use the hormones. I do know that it is possible though! To use NFP with hormonal therapy, you would have to see a NFP Dr. that is trained to use a patient's NFP charting in conjunction with other treatments. It may be hard to find a Dr. like this, but as I posted earlier you might try contacting Couple to Couple League (CCL). CCL would be able to atleast tell you if they have any references for you. If they cannot find someone in your area PM me and I will give you some names of some physicians I know that may be able to work with you and your Dr. on a "long distance" basis.

I hope this helps!

Fireman's Wife

 

[stubbornkelly]

Saying that the pill being an abortafacient is debatable is incorrect.

Actually, it is not. In my post I conceded that it may be abortifacient (well, at least that that's more accurate), but I really don't believe that it is abortifacient under any circumstances. If a woman is pregnant, the pill (or even emergency contraception ) will not make her unpregnant. But mine is a medical argument, not a passionate one. Medically, a woman is only pregnant once the fertilized egg has implanted in the uterus. I've not heard of an instance in which the pill has caused an abortion. If the egg has implanted, the pill won't cause it to detach. It's only abortifacient if you go beyond the medical definition of pregnancy.


I'm surprised medical doctors would claim it is abortifacient, to tell you the truth. They know better.

 

[stubbornkelly]

Oh, and yes, NFP and rhythm are very different. Rhythm does't work for all the reasons that have been stated, as well as that ovulation doesn't occur 14 days after your period, but 14 days before, so counting really isn't going to help (how do you know when to start counting back from something that hasn't happened yet?).

All methods of NFP I have read about involve daily checks, be it of basal temp, cervical mucous or a combination. My understanding is NOT that you plot for a month or two then use that calendar, but that you're continually checking. All of which makes it usable for women who are irregular, as I understand it.

 

[Fireman's Wife]

Actually, it is not. In my post I conceded that it may be abortifacient (well, at least that that's more accurate), but I really don't believe that it is abortifacient under any circumstances. If a woman is pregnant, the pill (or even emergency contraception ) will not make her unpregnant. But mine is a medical argument, not a passionate one. Medically, a woman is only pregnant once the fertilized egg has implanted in the uterus. I've not heard of an instance in which the pill has caused an abortion. If the egg has implanted, the pill won't cause it to detach. It's only abortifacient if you go beyond the medical definition of pregnancy.


I'm surprised medical doctors would claim it is abortifacient, to tell you the truth. They know better.

StubbornKelly,

I am not sure what qualifications you have to make a "medical argument". However, I have been a Registered Nurse for over 12 years and am very much qualified to do so. I am also very much a scientific thinker and I do not argue from only a "passionate" standpoint. Mine is an argument right in line with medicine.

You are absolutely wrong, medically speaking, in your definition of pregnancy. Here is the correct definition...pregnancy [L praegnans child bearing], the process, comprising the growth and development within a women of a new individual from conception through the embryonic and fetal periods to birth (Mosby's Medical Dictionary)... The definition goes on to describe in great detail about how this process takes place and includes pre-implantation descriptions of a pregnancy.

It is accurate to say that if the fertilized egg has implanted that HBC (taken as prescribed) will most likely not terminate the pregnancy. This still does not change the fact that when the uterus is "irritated" from the effects of the hormones, it will most likely not allow the fertilized egg to implant thus terminating the pregnancy. Obviously, this does not happen 100% of the time or there would not be any pregnancies in women using HBC as prescribed, but nevertheless it can happen, medically speaking. "Emergency Contraception" can also be abortifacient pre-implantation and when a fertilized egg has already implanted. Physicians who induce abortions will sometimes use some of these same "emergency contraception" hormones and drugs in conjunction with their surgical procedures.


I have argued this subject for years and I am very confident in my knowledge of the subject. If you want to have a "medical argument" make sure you have the qualifications to do so.

Fireman's Wife

 

[Fireman's Wife]

Oh, and yes, NFP and rhythm are very different. Rhythm does't work for all the reasons that have been stated, as well as that ovulation doesn't occur 14 days after your period, but 14 days before, so counting really isn't going to help (how do you know when to start counting back from something that hasn't happened yet?).

All methods of NFP I have read about involve daily checks, be it of basal temp, cervical mucous or a combination. My understanding is NOT that you plot for a month or two then use that calendar, but that you're continually checking. All of which makes it usable for women who are irregular, as I understand it.

You are correct, ovulation actually occurs approximately 14 days before your period. Some (few) people however, are on an exact 28 day cycle and for these people they can use the Rhythm Method with a high level of success. RM is however only one of many methods of NFP.

You are also correct to understand that many methods of NFP involve continual checks of fertility signs. It is precisely because of this continual check that women, regardless of their regularity or irregularity, can use a variety of NFP methods with effeciency rivaling HBC and other Non-HBC methods.

Fireman's Wife

 

[LovingMother]

I believe NFP is morally sound where artficial birth control is not, and here's why....

NFP is rightfully using the faculty given to us by nature; timing ourselves to only have sex at the least fertile times. This method is extremely safe, with a comparable success rate to ABC, and it's completely natural.

Non-abortive contraception is placing an artifical barrier (be it physical or chemical) between you and your spouse, thwarting the natural procreative aspect of sex. It's taking the easy way out. It's doesn't strengthen a marriage through discipline, but rather allows the couple to easily get into the habit of having sex just to satisfy one's mechanical desires (especially for the men*).

*Sex within marriage should not be given "on demand", at your every desire of the flesh, but rather is should be held up to its spirtitual beauty of mutual expression of love. This requires some level of discipline to begin with, not giving in to your every whim of arousal.

I do believe that NFP is completely moral and a wonderful way of controling pregnancy. However, God gave us incredible sexual urges and He gave us an outlet for them called marriage. I don't find Biblical scripture that tells us to be disciplined with sex within our marriage, but I do find the opposite:

Corinthians 7:1-5
1 Now concerning the thing whereof you wrote unto me. It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and let every woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 5 Defraud ye not one the other except it be with consent for a time that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

Please correct me if I missed scripture that supports such discipline between a husband and wife.

 

[LovingMother]

EVERY woman's body puts out certain recognizable signs that she is fertile. These signs maybe varied from woman to woman, but they are present in EVERY woman with the exclusion of women on HBC because of the effects of HBC. "Reading" these signs takes some close observation but these observational skills can be learned with relative ease. If you and your husband are healthy in other ways, you would not be missing out on anything. I know many NFP couples besides myself and we have had very frank talks at times. There is no lack of sex going on, thats for sure.

This is not true of EVERY woman. I have a disorder that makes my signs of fertility completely unpredictable and it has nothing to do with HBC since I don't use HBC. It's not for lack of trying or lack of observation. I have tried all the methods I know of including temperature and the mucus test. Unless NFP trainers have come up with some new sign to check very recently, NFP does not work for me. It may work for most women and that's wonderful, but it doesn't work for me.

 

[joyinchrist]

Just wondering... where can I read up on this NFP stuff? Is there a site that explains it all? I'm not even close to having sex, but i wonder about this alot... i dont know if i can even stop taking the pill or not... i have an iron issue as well, but i cant take iron supplements at all. however the pill makes me lose less iron, or sustain more... i dunno!

Anyways.... i used to think that because of all that, i would only go off the pill to have a child, but i'm not sure i want to be on the pill when i get married.(if i do!)

oh who knows.... but really i would like to learn what this NFP stuff is all about

 

[LovingMother]

Off topic for a moment, I, too, often suffer from low iron and iron suppliments do little to help. I spoke with my doula today and she said that many of the midwives that she works with recommend taking liquid chlorophyl. She said they have gotten very good results. I haven't tried it yet, so can't really promote it from experience, but you can get liquid chlorophyl over the counter at health food stores. I think many people use it for digestive tract odor. If it doesn't help your iron, at least your breath should smell great! LOL

 

[Fireman's Wife]

This is not true of EVERY woman. I have a disorder that makes my signs of fertility completely unpredictable and it has nothing to do with HBC since I don't use HBC. It's not for lack of trying or lack of observation. I have tried all the methods I know of including temperature and the mucus test. Unless NFP trainers have come up with some new sign to check very recently, NFP does not work for me. It may work for most women and that's wonderful, but it doesn't work for me.

Loving Mother,

EVERY woman has fertile signs. Some maybe more subtle than others. If you have been ever been fertile, you have had fertile signs. It may take closer observation for some but every woman has signs of fertility. There are not any "new" signs that I am aware of but there are more than what you have listed. There are different types of mucus test. There are cervical checks. As you said there is basal body temperature. There are other more subjective signals, such as an increase in libido, that can be used in conjunction with other signs. I understand that you have tried NFP. I understand that you are not comforatable with your ability to distinguish your fertile and nonfertile periods in your cycle. I am not trying to talk you into changing anything you are doing. NFP is easier for some women than others. I am sorry it did not come easy for you. But I really cannot agree with you that some women do not have fertile signs. If a women is fertile she has fertile signs. In some cases, the signs may only be able to be read by more invasive observations or very close observations but if she is fertile the signs are present nevertheless.

Fireman's Wife

 

[Fireman's Wife]

Just wondering... where can I read up on this NFP stuff? Is there a site that explains it all? I'm not even close to having sex, but i wonder about this alot... i dont know if i can even stop taking the pill or not... i have an iron issue as well, but i cant take iron supplements at all. however the pill makes me lose less iron, or sustain more... i dunno!

Anyways.... i used to think that because of all that, i would only go off the pill to have a child, but i'm not sure i want to be on the pill when i get married.(if i do!)

oh who knows.... but really i would like to learn what this NFP stuff is all about

Joyinchrist,

Do a search for Couple to Couple League. They will be able to give you a variety of options on how to learn more about NFP. I hope this helps!

Fireman's Wife

 

[joyinchrist]

Off topic for a moment, I, too, often suffer from low iron and iron suppliments do little to help. I spoke with my doula today and she said that many of the midwives that she works with recommend taking liquid chlorophyl. She said they have gotten very good results. I haven't tried it yet, so can't really promote it from experience, but you can get liquid chlorophyl over the counter at health food stores. I think many people use it for digestive tract odor. If it doesn't help your iron, at least your breath should smell great! LOL

Hmmm. i havent heard of that! I can take liquid iron (sometimes)... but its not the greatest thing for me... the pill is the only thing that stops me from fainting all over the place! I fear fainting in church! They may just think i am overcome by the spirit and leave me on the floor! lol... ok not funny

 

[Fireman's Wife]

Off topic for a moment, I, too, often suffer from low iron and iron suppliments do little to help. I spoke with my doula today and she said that many of the midwives that she works with recommend taking liquid chlorophyl. She said they have gotten very good results. I haven't tried it yet, so can't really promote it from experience, but you can get liquid chlorophyl over the counter at health food stores. I think many people use it for digestive tract odor. If it doesn't help your iron, at least your breath should smell great! LOL

Did your Doula say how the liquid chlorophyl is supposed to help an iron deficiency? I have struggled with iron deficiency for years especially when I am pregnant or nursing. I cannot take iron pills . I would be interested to know more.

 

[LovingMother]

Loving Mother,

EVERY woman has fertile signs. Some maybe more subtle than others. If you have been ever been fertile, you have had fertile signs. It may take closer observation for some but every woman has signs of fertility. There are not any "new" signs that I am aware of but there are more than what you have listed. There are different types of mucus test. There are cervical checks. As you said there is basal body temperature. There are other more subjective signals, such as an increase in libido, that can be used in conjunction with other signs. I understand that you have tried NFP. I understand that you are not comforatable with your ability to distinguish your fertile and nonfertile periods in your cycle. I am not trying to talk you into changing anything you are doing. NFP is easier for some women than others. I am sorry it did not come easy for you. But I really cannot agree with you that some women do not have fertile signs. If a women is fertile she has fertile signs. In some cases, the signs may only be able to be read by more invasive observations or very close observations but if she is fertile the signs are present nevertheless.

Fireman's Wife

You yourself excluded women on HBC. My signs are very unpredictable when present at all. I am very comfortable with my ability to recognise my signs when they are present, but they are extremely unpredictable and have proven to be a poor indicator of my fertility. This isn't just my own view. I don't claim to be a professional, so I seek out the advice of professionals. Even NFP trainers will admit that there are many women for which NFP simply does not work.

 

[joyinchrist]

Joyinchrist,

Do a search for Couple to Couple League. They will be able to give you a variety of options on how to learn more about NFP. I hope this helps!

Fireman's Wife

Thanks I will!

 

[The Fireman]

Loving Mother,


I DO appreciate your views and I also believe you have much understanding of this subject.

But why must scriputre address the specific morality of abstaining from sex for 3-5 days? I simply do not believe that the scriptures either left out references like this or condemned this type of behaivor.

You quote scripture that seems to support my point that abstainance is moral!

People using NFP are having as much sex as people who are not.

If married people must have the opprotunity every day to have sex for their marriage to be biblical than in actuality non of us have biblical marriages.

I have never met anyone that has retreated to the point of claiming that periodic abstainance is the lynchpin that invalidates NFP. If periodic abstainance is "against" scripture or Gods plan for marriage than it would follow that periodic abstainance is morally impermissable. Yet you stated that you believe that NFP is moral.

You must reavaluate, or am I wrong.

Scripture does not have to support an act to make it morally permissable. Yet this is what many people say to me "where do I find it in scripture?"
Where do you find scriptural references to telephones, the internet, plastic surgery, deforestation, pollution etc...? We must use reason and logic which guides our free will.

The Fireman

 

[LovingMother]

Did your Doula say how the liquid chlorophyl is supposed to help an iron deficiency? I have struggled with iron deficiency for years especially when I am pregnant or nursing. I cannot take iron pills . I would be interested to know more.

No, she wasn't sure. I did just a tidbit of reading since I spoke with her. Most of the liquid chlorophyl on the market has a nutrition label and I have yet to find one that lists iron, but the midwives insist it works anyway. One of them related it to green leafy veggies and said that it is the chlorophyl in the veggies that makes them such a great source of iron. The liquid chlorophyl, the midwife says, just packs a better punch than the veggies because it concentrates the chlorophyl. I don't know and I am having trouble finding a good source to back it up, but so far I haven't run into any information that would indicate that it would hurt to try, so I think I will give it a try.