• With the events that occured on July 13th, 2024, a reminder that posts wishing that the attempt was successful will not be tolerated. Regardless of political affiliation, at no point is any type of post wishing death on someone is allowed and will be actioned appropriately by CF Staff.

  • Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Bibliolatry

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
5,929
1,739
Perth
✟148,809.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Grip Docility

ozso

Ingenious Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
21,958
11,515
62
Cyberspace
✟712,383.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.
Before this gets rolling, let's see a quote from a notable Protestant leader (Luther, Weasley, Calvin et al) making the declaration that "the Bible is God". Or that declaration existing in the Statement of Faith of any major denomination.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
5,929
1,739
Perth
✟148,809.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Before this gets rolling, let's see a quote from a notable Protestant leader (Luther, Weasley, Calvin et al) making the declaration that "the Bible is God". Or that declaration existing in the Statement of Faith of any major denomination.
I do not think you will find such a statement in any credible denominational statement of faith. But in Christian Forums I have seen it, here, for example. And a thread includes the claim in its title, see here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: okay
Upvote 0

ozso

Ingenious Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
21,958
11,515
62
Cyberspace
✟712,383.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I do not think you will find such a statement in any credible denominational statement of faith. But in Christian Forums I have seen it, here, for example. And a thread includes the claim in its title, see here.
That doesn't make it Protestant though. I know of Catholic priests who are universalists, but that doesn't make UR Catholic. And Pope Francis himself is saying things that's contrary to traditional Catholic teaching. So coming up with stuff on your own or going against traditional teaching isn't limited to Protestants. There's Arch Bishop Lazar and Metropolitan Ware who have gone against traditional Eastern Orthodox teaching. There's individualism throughout Christianity.

When it comes to that thread you linked, I didn't go through the whole thing but I did see there was mostly disagreement from Protestants.
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
5,929
1,739
Perth
✟148,809.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
That doesn't make it Protestant though. I know of Catholic priests who are universalists, but that doesn't make UR Catholic. And Pope Francis himself is saying things that's contrary to traditional Catholic teaching. So coming up with stuff on your own or going against traditional teaching isn't limited to Protestants. There's Arch Bishop Lazar and Metropolitan Ware who have gone against traditional Eastern Orthodox teaching. There's individualism throughout Christianity.

When it comes to that thread you linked, I didn't go through the whole thing but I did see there was mostly disagreement from Protestants.
Indeed, what you've stated is either accurate or sufficiently near the truth to be indistinguishable. Individualism can give rise to peculiar doctrines, which is a concerning element of Protestantism, as some Protestant denominations endorse individualism in the reading and interpretation of the Bible. Conversely, Catholicism does not sanction individualism in either interpretation or doctrine. Consequently, within Christian Forums, there are instances of Protestants espousing quite unusual doctrines.
 
Upvote 0

ozso

Ingenious Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
21,958
11,515
62
Cyberspace
✟712,383.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Indeed, what you've stated is either accurate or sufficiently near the truth to be indistinguishable. Individualism can give rise to peculiar doctrines, which is a concerning element of Protestantism, as some Protestant denominations endorse individualism in the reading and interpretation of the Bible. Conversely, Catholicism does not sanction individualism in either interpretation or doctrine. Consequently, within Christian Forums, there are instances of Protestants espousing quite unusual doctrines.
And when someone espouses a quite unusual doctrine, they get dog-piled by Protestants disagreeing with them, because there is a foundation of orthodoxy within Protestantism. So individualism isn't really sanctioned within Protestantism either. Someone spinning their own individual doctrine is always met with ovrall disapproval and rejection.
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
5,929
1,739
Perth
✟148,809.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
And when someone espouses a quite unusual doctrine, they get dog-piled by Protestants disagreeing with them, because there is a foundation of orthodoxy within Protestantism. So individualism isn't really sanctioned within Protestantism either. Someone spinning their own individual doctrine is always met with ovrall disapproval and rejection.
The emergence of numerous small groups and denominations, each with unique doctrines, is often the result of individuals interpreting scripture in their own way.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

ozso

Ingenious Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
21,958
11,515
62
Cyberspace
✟712,383.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The emergence of numerous small groups and denominations, each with unique doctrines, is often the result of individuals interpreting scripture in their own way.
Those with unorthodox doctrine are recognized as cults.

Going back to Popes, can you say the last three showed no individuality? That they've all said and taught exactly alike? And if popes vary that much, I imagine there's even more variation among parish priests. And within Catholicism are there not different orders such as the Jesuits, the Dominicans, the Friars etc?
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
5,929
1,739
Perth
✟148,809.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Those with unorthodox doctrine are recognized as cults.

Going back to Popes, can you say the last three showed no individuality? That they've all said and taught exactly alike? And if popes vary that much, I imagine there's even more variation among parish priests. And within Catholicism are there not different orders such as the Jesuits, the Dominicans, the Friars etc?
It seems we were not initially discussing popes, but regarding the last three—John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis—each has their unique agenda, approach, and emphasis. They do not teach in an identical manner; their teaching styles, voices, and vocabularies vary, yet they all adhere to the same doctrine. Considering the parishioners, with a population exceeding 1.4 billion, it's undeniable that there are numerous differences, including some in doctrine. Indeed, there are various orders, each with its distinct charism and message, but all concur on the dogmas and doctrines of the faith.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,231
11,223
Georgia
✟976,477.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.
2 Tim 3:16 "all scripture is given by inspiration from God and is to be used for doctrine and correction"
2 Pet 1:20-21 "holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from God"

So then when you put your Bible in a suitcase you are placing the word of God in a suitcase - but are not placing God in a suitcase.

You are placing that standard of truth which judges the Catholic Church - and in fact all churches and all church doctrine - in a suitcase -- but you are not placing God in a suitcase.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,231
11,223
Georgia
✟976,477.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The emergence of numerous small groups and denominations, each with unique doctrines, is often the result of individuals interpreting scripture in their own way.
That is what the Jews said about the Christians.

Acts 24:14
But I confess this to you, that in accordance with the Way, which they call a sect, I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and is written in the Prophets;
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
5,929
1,739
Perth
✟148,809.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
2 Tim 3:16 "all scripture is given by inspiration from God and is to be used for doctrine and correction"
2 Pet 1:20-21 "holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from God"

So then when you put your Bible in a suitcase you are placing the word of God in a suitcase - but are not placing God in a suitcase.

You are placing that standard of truth which judges the Catholic Church - and in fact all churches and all church doctrine - in a suitcase -- but you are not placing God in a suitcase.
When I place my Bible in a case, it is the physical book that is being stored, not the divine Word of God, nor God the Father, nor the Holy Spirit. It is a book composed of paper, ink, glue, thread, and a binding cover. While it contains God's revelation and words to guide me in righteousness, it remains a book, not a deity.

The Bible does not serve as a judge, nor does it pass judgment on anyone. Its teachings are meant to guide one's lifestyle, and according to Matthew 25:31-48, it is God who will judge the way one lives. The Bible also does not judge the church, for the church is the body of Christ, and since Christ has died and risen, he is beyond judgment. Instead, he is the judge before whom we all must account.
 
Upvote 0

RandyPNW

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2021
2,731
622
Pacific NW, USA
✟122,344.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.
Yes, it is silly to say that the Bible is God. God is not a book, nor a collection of books. That is Pantheistic teaching, probably related to the idea that the Bible is the Word of God, and God is the Word?

There is a kind of Kabbalistic view of the Bible in Protestant circles I've grown up in, in which the Bible is viewed as so inspired that God wrote His words through human subjects utterly independent of their own thoughts and feelings. As such, every word is viewed as so inspired as to suggest the words can be counted and considered predestinated by God.

I could never go that far, particularly since I know the authors were as imperfect as you and me, even admitting as such in those books. That doesn't mean the Scriptures are flawed in their doctrines. I would see biblical beliefs as inspired as perhaps Catholics see the Pope's statements ex cathedra, as utterly trustworthy.

As a Protestant I don't, of course, see the Pope's views "from the chair" as "infallible." Nor do I see every statement in the Scriptures as reflecting perfect authors. But I do see Scriptures as determined by God to be an infallible rule for human living, expressing God's will in the context of a religious history.
 
Upvote 0

ozso

Ingenious Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
21,958
11,515
62
Cyberspace
✟712,383.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It seems we were not initially discussing popes, but regarding the last three—John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis—each has their unique agenda, approach, and emphasis. They do not teach in an identical manner; their teaching styles, voices, and vocabularies vary, yet they all adhere to the same doctrine. Considering the parishioners, with a population exceeding 1.4 billion, it's undeniable that there are numerous differences, including some in doctrine. Indeed, there are various orders, each with its distinct charism and message, but all concur on the dogmas and doctrines of the faith.
I was just pointing out popes as an example of a certain extent of individuality and diversity in Catholicism. However I get what you're saying about Protestantism seeming to go off in a zillion different directions. But at the same time I find most churches I visit or watch are pretty much the same. Even Catholic mass that I've attended or watched are pretty similar. What I'm always looking for is a sound edifying message that has Christ at the center. As long as the pastor or priest is building up deciples in Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
5,929
1,739
Perth
✟148,809.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
I was just pointing out popes as an example of a certain extent of individuality and diversity in Catholicism. However I get what you're saying about Protestantism seeming to go off in a zillion different directions. But at the same time I find most churches I visit or watch are pretty much the same. Even Catholic mass that I've attended or watched are pretty similar. What I'm always looking for is a sound edifying message that has Christ at the center. As long as the pastor or priest is building up deciples in Christ.
One distinct aspect of the Mass, compared to a typical Protestant church service, is that the 'sermon' is brief and not the focal point of worship. In the Mass, a typical homily lasts 10 to 15 minutes and often consists of commentary or lessons from the Gospel reading. The central act of worship is the Liturgy of the Holy Eucharist, which is the second major part of the Mass, following the Liturgy of the Word. It is the act of Communion, rather than the homily, that is viewed as most edifying for the faithful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

th1bill

A Believer/Follower
Jul 5, 2003
1,242
201
79
Texas
Visit site
✟81,868.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.
The Bible is the recorded Word of Yeshuah and Yashuah, the Son of Yeshuah, is the Living Word. I have never heard a single Protestant declare the Bible to be an Elohim. I also require references.
 
Upvote 0

hislegacy

Jesus is the only Way
Site Supporter
Nov 15, 2006
45,720
15,109
Broken Arrow, OK
✟797,970.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.

Before this gets rolling, let's see a quote from a notable Protestant leader (Luther, Weasley, Calvin et al) making the declaration that "the Bible is God". Or that declaration existing in the Statement of Faith of any major denomination.
EXACTLY - who on earth says that?
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
10,546
6,117
Utah
✟778,839.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.
God reveals himself through the written word ... it is His main vehicle of disclosing who He is. Catholic beliefs are based on both scripture and tradition. Jesus warned us of mans tradition .... because we are faulty the traditions (most of them) are faulty.

We are also called to study the word of God (bible) for ourselves to determine if what is being taught (no matter where it comes from) is true to what is written.

The Word became flesh.

The “Word became flesh” not only means that Jesus is fully God and fully man but also that Jesus fulfills all prophecies and covenants.

The entire bible is about Jesus and the past history and future of mankind and the people who wrote it were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
8,022
5,767
69
Midwest
✟308,550.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Before this gets rolling, let's see a quote from a notable Protestant leader (Luther, Weasley, Calvin et al) making the declaration that "the Bible is God". Or that declaration existing in the Statement of Faith of any major denomination.
Maybe the problem is referring to scripter as The Word OF God. Isn't that tantamount to "God"?

I am in dialogue now with a nondenominational protestant who demands a Bible quote to support anything from the sacrament of confession to having priests. Nothing else matters to him.

But it does raise the question of how we take that ancient and venerable collection of documents, interpret and apply them to our lives today.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ozso

Ingenious Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
21,958
11,515
62
Cyberspace
✟712,383.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
May the problem is referring to scripter as The Word OF God. Isn't that tantamount to "God"?
No it's tantamount to the stone tablets being the word of God, as in the words of God in written form.
I am in dialogue now with a nondenominational protestant who demands a Bible quote to support anything from the sacrament of confession to having priests. Nothing else matters to him.
That's the actual reason why this thread and many other threads like this exist. It's about dogma, tradition and practice that's not found in the bible. And usually while relying on the bible is discouraged because of that, there's still the attempt to apply the bible to qualify it.
But it does raise the question of how we take that ancient and venerable collection of documents, interpret and apply them to our lives today.
Man hasn't changed any. Things that man has made and built has changed. But the nature of mankind remains the same.
 
Upvote 0