Why is Mary’s perpetual virginity so controversial for non-Catholic Christians?

[FaithT]

There is a word for cousin in the bible. It is used here:

“Aristarchus my fellow prisoner greets you, with Mark the cousin of Barnabas (about whom you received instructions: if he comes to you, welcome him),” (Col 4:10 NKJV)

The word is ἀνεψιός anepsios.

Ok I stand corrected. This below says that there was no word for cousin in Hebrew but there was the word in Greek. I think.

How to Explain the Perpetual Virginity of Mary

Jason Evert answers the most common objections to the Catholic teaching on the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

www.catholic.com

There is a word for cousin in the bible. It is used here:

“Aristarchus my fellow prisoner greets you, with Mark the cousin of Barnabas (about whom you received instructions: if he comes to you, welcome him),” (Col 4:10 NKJV)

The word is ἀνεψιός anepsios.

 

[Lady Bug]

A lot of it is in the difference from how they spoke and how we speak now. When they said Jesus was Mary’s firstborn son it didn’t mean she had more.

The firstborn thing is not my issue, it was the "he knew her not until."

 

[FaithT]

The firstborn thing is not my issue, it was the "he knew her not until”

The firstborn thing is not my issue, it was the "he knew her not until."

He Knew Her Not Until

DAY 199 CHALLENGE “Matthew states that Joseph ‘knew her [Mary] not until she had borne a son.’ This implies that he did have sexual relations with h...

www.catholic.com

 

[FaithT]

But if anepsios was used once, then it was used. Catholic Answers says they didn’t have a word for cousin. Why the discrepancy?

Maybe what I read was what I posted earlier…...there wasn’t a name in HEBREW for the word cousin. Is that correct?

 

[mourningdove~]

It seems strange to me, too. And yes, I’ve heard many times that he probably was married before and had children from that union.

Tonite I did abit of research on the internet, and so I am no longer 'shocked' by the question put to Catholic Answers. Because what I found was quite abit of discussion about Joseph. Specifically, 'was he a perpetual virgin?' Many speculate that he was, and yet no one seems to know for sure. Nor does anyone seem to know for sure that he was an older widower with grown children from his former marriage.

So ... I guess ... in the absence of historical data, we are free to speculate about his life.
It doesn't appear we will get an answer to this question until we get to heaven!

 

[fide]

But if anepsios was used once, then it was used. Catholic Answers says they didn’t have a word for cousin. Why the discrepancy?

What language was CA referring to - Greek?, Hebrew?, Aramaic? Is the question of great relevance?

 

[fide]

I was listening to "Catholic Answers' on the radio the other evening.
Not my usual source for information, but someone called into the program and shared this:

The caller said that some Catholics believe that Joseph was a perpetual virgin, and he asked them if was true?
And he asked if it is required that Catholics believe this about Joseph?

Catholic Answers kind of skirted the issue, and said that yes, it may be true.
(I don't recall them saying that Catholics are required to believe this, but I think not.)

Honestly, it shocked me to think that Joseph may have been a perpetual virgin.
The idea seems very foreign to me. Never heard this before.

I've always understood Joseph to be an older man who may have fathered other children, in a previous relationship. Even that he may have been a widower.

What are your thoughts on this?
What do the traditional writings say about Joseph? Do they say he was a perpetual virgin?

I don't have thoughts on this, beyond that in the resurrection bodies, as Jesus said, "they are like the angels." (Mt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.-- Mk 12:25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.). Some have been given this on earth, having grown close in their interior, spiritual life to the perfection (maturity) of holy, supernatural love/charity - which is in heaven.

 

[lismore]

In other words, "believing on Jesus" has consequences for the entire life of the faithful disciple. "Come follow Me" includes "Follow Me to the foot of My Cross and learn - keep learning - all that the Father seeks of us. The faithful disciple, whom Jesus loves, Jesus calls to full maturity in His Life. It is not, in God's will, as Paul stressed to the Corinthians, to remain "in Christ" - it is necessary to be "in Christ," yes, in the beginning, but not to remain a "babe in Christ." We are called to more.

Hello fide! Thank you for your reply, I hope you're well today.


I would note two things. Firstly when sharing the gospel I was not talking about babes in Christ, or mature believers, but rather those who are not yet saved.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

I would submit that when sharing the gospel clarity is vital, from the passage above the death and resurrection of Christ are given centre stage. To add in a lot of additional, unnecessary and perhaps controversial topics would muddy the waters. In no passage I am aware of in the New Testament when the gospel is preached is Mary the core topic, it's always Christ. Perhaps your idea would hold more water if it could be guaranteed that all the listeners were mature Christians, how would this be guaranteed?

But in addition, your doctrines, though sincerely held by yourself are controversial in the church, even among mature believers.

God Bless You, have a good day

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Why don’t Protestants just let that one be and agree to disagree but not get worked up about it?

It seems if they give an inch, the rest of the mile (regarding Mary) seems going too far. (to protestants)

So they get worked up about it.

 

[FaithT]

What language was CA referring to - Greek?, Hebrew?, Aramaic? Is the question of great relevance?

I dont remember. But later I read that they didn’t have a word for cousin in Hebrew.
But when I read it the first time I took it to mean in any language.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I dont remember. But later I read that they didn’t have a word for cousin in Hebrew.

I guess the issue is with using English translations.

The issue will be solved when a new world language is selected.

 

[Michie]

Question:​

Can it actually be disproved that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

Answer:​

Jesus didn’t have any blood brothers and sisters. We cover this matter well in our tract “Brethren of the Lord” and also in a related article by Matt Fradd.

Can It Be Proven Mary Had No Other Children?

Jesus didn’t have any blood brothers and sisters. We cover this matter well in our tract “Brethren of the Lord” and also in a related article by Matt Fradd.

www.catholic.com

 

[Michie]

How to Explain the Perpetual Virginity of Mary

Jason Evert answers the most common objections to the Catholic teaching on the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

www.catholic.com

What the Early Church Believed: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary

Writings that prove Early Christians knew, through Scripture and Tradition, that Jesus was Mary’s only child and that she remained a lifelong virgin.

www.catholic.com

 

[Michie]

These “brethren” were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22). In addition, Hebrew and Aramaic did not have a word for “cousin,” and so cousins were referred to as brothers and sisters, although people in the ancient Holy Land knew you were using the word equivocally.

Does Mathew 13:55 Affirm Jesus Had Brothers and Sisters?

Not if you mean “brother” and “sister” in the traditional bloodline sense, as if Mary the Blessed Mother had other children besides Jesus. To be clear, this was...

www.catholic.com

Question:​

Since coming back to the Catholic Church after attending Calvary Chapel for nearly ten years, I’ve learned how to refute all the arguments used to attack Mary’s perpetual virginity. But recently I was stumped by my former pastor by an argument I’ve never heard before. He said Mary definitely had other children besides Jesus because the New Testament uses the Greek word for brother in Matthew 13:55-56. He said the Greek words for cousin or nephew could have been used instead if that was in fact the relationship. He insisted this Greek word is never used in the New Testament to mean anything else except sibling.

Answer:​

The pastor is half right and half wrong. He’s right about the fact that the Greek word for brother (adelphos; plural adelphoi) does mean sibling and about the fact that Greek has precise words for cousin, nephew, and other close relations. He’s also correct in pointing out that adelphos is the word used whenever there’s a mention of Jesus’ “brothers” (Mt 12:46; 13:55-56; Mk 6:3; Jn 7:5; Acts 1:14; 1 Cor 9:5).

He’s wrong, though, to infer from that bit of grammatical truth that Mary had children other than Jesus, mainly because he’s wrong in claiming that adelphos can only mean sibling in the New Testament. In Matthew 13:55-56 four men are named as brothers (adelphoi) of the Lord: James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. Your former pastor concludes wrongly that these are at least some of Mary’s other children. The New Testament proves otherwise.
In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary of Magdala.” Cross reference this with Matthew 27:56: “Among them [at the cross] were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” We see that at least two of the men mentioned in Matthew 13 were definitely not siblings of Jesus (although they’re called adelphoi); they were Jesus’ cousins–sons of their mother’s sister.

The Bible is simply silent on the exact relationship between Jesus and the other two men, Simon and Jude, mentioned in Matthew 13. This proves two important things. First, it proves that the Greek word for brother is sometimes used to mean something other than sibling, and it proves that Matthew 13:55-56 in no way demonstrates that Mary had other children.

Does the use of this Greek word for sibling indicate that Jesus had brothers?

The pastor is half right and half wrong. He’s right about the fact that the Greek word for brother (adelphos; plural adelphoi) does mean sibling and about...

www.catholic.com

 

[Michie]

And the answer straight from the op:

A: First of all, I think we need to make sure we’re not painting with too broad a brush. “Protestants” is a big category, and different Protestant denominations profess a wide variety of specific beliefs on different points of Christian doctrine. For example, certain traditional Anglicans or Episcopalians might retain a belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity, even to the point of giving some of their parishes names like “the Church of St. Mary the Virgin.”

But getting to the real substance of your question, one thought is that many Protestant denominations have a very heavy emphasis on “sola scriptura,” or the belief that we should look to the Bible alone for knowledge of faith and morals. This is in contrast with the Catholic belief in both the Bible and the teachings outside of Scripture, which have been handed down via sacred tradition (as described in 2 Thes 2:15).

It is true that much of our Catholic doctrine and customs pertaining to Mary’s perpetual virginity find a source in tradition and the theological writings of the Church fathers, rather than from direct and explicit statements in the Bible. Yet Mary’s lifelong virginity is not only not contradicted by Scripture, but the Gospel also implicitly supports this doctrine.

A ‘hot topic’​

In Luke 1:34, at the Annunciation when the angel Gabriel tells Mary that she will conceive the Savior, Mary askes: “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” As many scholars and saints over the centuries have observed, this question would not make sense if Mary had intended on having normal marital relations with Joseph at some point.

Some might point to the references to the “brothers of Jesus” (e.g., Mk 6:3) as Scriptural evidence that Mary had given birth to additional children. But this can be refuted by considering the broader context. As St. Jerome (who is most well-known as the first Latin translator of the Bible) notes, the original scriptural word for “brothers” could also refer to cousins or other close relatives. It’s also possible that the “brothers of Jesus” could have been St. Joseph’s children from a previous marriage.

It’s also good to keep in mind that although the Church has constantly taught the belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity from her very foundation, this teaching has also been somewhat of a “hot topic,” even in ancient times.

A vocational challenge​

For example, in the fourth century, St. Jerome wrote a treatise on the perpetual virginity of Mary, in the form of arguments “Against Helvidius.” While Helvidius primarily argued that Mary did not remain a virgin throughout her life, his writing also posited that, since Marysupposedly had normal marital relations eventually, there was no reason to maintain that there was any special virtue to a life of dedicated Christian virginity or celibacy.

Connecting Mary’s perpetual virginity with choices that rank-and-file Christians may make in their own lives naturally “raises the stakes” for what might otherwise be a more academic discussion.

While the doctrine of Mary’s perpetual virginity has many layers of deep theological meaning, the possibility of imitating her life of perfect virginity can present a very concrete vocational challenge to many of today’s Christians, just as it did to the Christians of the church’s early centuries. This could be one reason why the doctrine of Mary’s perpetual virginity might be a more emotionally charged topic for some non-Catholic Christians.

Why is Mary's perpetual virginity so controversial for non-Catholic Christians?

Why do non-Catholic Christians dispute Mary's perpetual virginity, despite its limited impact on Protestant theology?

www.oursundayvisitor.com

 

[FaithT]

How to Explain the Perpetual Virginity of Mary

Jason Evert answers the most common objections to the Catholic teaching on the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

www.catholic.com

What the Early Church Believed: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary

Writings that prove Early Christians knew, through Scripture and Tradition, that Jesus was Mary’s only child and that she remained a lifelong virgin.

www.catholic.com

Was there a Hebrew word for cousin?

 

[fide]

Hello fide! Thank you for your reply, I hope you're well today.


I would note two things. Firstly when sharing the gospel I was not talking about babes in Christ, or mature believers, but rather those who are not yet saved.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

I would submit that when sharing the gospel clarity is vital, from the passage above the death and resurrection of Christ are given centre stage. To add in a lot of additional, unnecessary and perhaps controversial topics would muddy the waters. In no passage I am aware of in the New Testament when the gospel is preached is Mary the core topic, it's always Christ. Perhaps your idea would hold more water if it could be guaranteed that all the listeners were mature Christians, how would this be guaranteed?

But in addition, your doctrines, though sincerely held by yourself are controversial in the church, even among mature believers.

God Bless You, have a good day

How do you define, or understand, the word "mature" in this context? I'd be grateful for as full a response as you're willing to write.

 

[Michie]

Was there a Hebrew word for cousin?

There is no word for cousin in Hebrew and Aramaic. This is an important point to understand. In fact, in the Old Testament, because of the fact that they had no word for cousin, you normally would find either a circumlocution used, and that gets kind of awkward

Did Mary Have Other Children?

Every so often the debate over Mary having other children comes up. Tim Staples, author of Behold Your Mother, joins us to debunk this claim. Cy Kellett: Tim S...

www.catholic.com

 

[FaithT]

There is no word for cousin in Hebrew and Aramaic. This is an important point to understand. In fact, in the Old Testament, because of the fact that they had no word for cousin, you normally would find either a circumlocution used, and that gets kind of awkward

Did Mary Have Other Children?

Every so often the debate over Mary having other children comes up. Tim Staples, author of Behold Your Mother, joins us to debunk this claim. Cy Kellett: Tim S...

www.catholic.com

So the bottom line is this: Mary definitely was a perpetual virgin. Correct? And when it’s said that there was no word for cousin, they are referring to in Hebrew and Aramaic, correct?

 

[Michie]

So the bottom line is this: Mary definitely was a perpetual virgin. Correct? And when it’s said that there was no word for cousin, they are referring to in Hebrew and Aramaic, correct?

Yes. Those that try to use Greek to back their position does not work either as I posted above.